Conversation passed over from Entomo-l

Ingolf Askevold IASKEVOL at VM.CC.FAMU.EDU
Fri May 13 23:29:05 CDT 1994


Dear Taxacom subscribers:
     Recently there arose a discussion on taxacom that had just
been carried out, on entomo-l.  Ann King was archiving this
discussion, and when it came up again on this net I asked her for
this archive to post here.  Anyway, here it is, with a considerable
amount of "cabbage", as Ann put it, trimmed to make perusal
somewhat easier.
     Certainly there's plenty of fodder for thought here?
     Ingolf Askevold

               **********************************

Date:         Thu, 12 May 94 18:52:28 EDT
From:         Ann King <ANNKING at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Subject:      archives
To:           Ingolf <iaskevol at vm.cc.famu.edu>

Entomology listserv electronic journals May 12, 1994

Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:50:01 -0400
From: zarazaga <zarazaga at cc.csic.es>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: disappearing journals

Dear Netters: Following the thread of communications about problems
on peering, dissapearing journals, etc., I must communicate the
extinction of Eos, the most well known Spanish journal on
Entomology. Recently, the CSIC (Spanish Council for Scientific
Research) cut off funding and requested the journal to self-fund.
In the present circumstances, and even after a call to the Spanish
entomologists, this has not been possible. The CSIC and the general
Spanish goverment policy on scientific publication is that Spanish
scientists must publish ALL in English and outside Spain,
preferably in journals included in the Science Citation Index (ISI)
and with the highest impact factor. For the scientists, it is clear
that some papers of local interest regarding, v. g., faunistics,
are better published in local, easily available journals. In other
cases, fundings are not enough to cover page charges in such
journals, and still more problems exist. On the other hand, Spanish
is becoming a non-scientifical language. We have advised our
government persons in charge against this procedure, but they seem
to be blind and deaf. Eos (after 69 years of existence) has passed
away, despite the search for funds carried by me (Scientific
Editor) among financial and cultural means. And I had many
manuscripts submitted. REST IN PEACE.

************************************************************
*    Miguel A. Alonso- Zarazaga (Dr)                       *
*    Depto. de Biodiversidad                               *
*    Museo Nacional de Ciencias Naturales                  *
*    Jose Gutierrez Abascal, 2                             *
*    E-28006 Madrid SPAIN                                  *
************************************************************
*    Tlf. +34-1-411.13.28 (ext. 1110)                      *
************************************************************
*    Fax  +34-1-564.50.78                                  *
************************************************************
*    E-mail   zarazaga at cc.csic.es  (Internet)              *
************************************************************



Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:28:01 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: disappearing journals


>In message <144*zarazaga at cc.csic.es> zarazaga
><zarazaga at cc.csic.es> writes,
>
>>Dear Netters: Following the thread of communications about
problems on peering, dissapearing journals, etc., I must
communicate the extinction of Eos, the most well known Spanish
journal on Entomology.

Larry of the Flies

>I for one am sorry to hear of the demise of Eos.  When I was
>studying or working at institutions where the library received
>Eos, I enjoyed browsing through the latest issue.  No more.

How about this solution?  Why not just continue Eos, but set it up
as the first entomological journal on the internet?  Computer
transmission is relatively inexpensive compared to print
publishing, and a modest computer such as an IBM 486 or a Macintosh
Centris works perfectly well as a server.

The best application to use for an internet entomology journal
would be Mosaic, which allows text and figures to be received
easily on an IBM, Macintosh, Amiga, or XWindows computer.

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================

Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 08:14:48 -0400
Message-Id: <01HB1IKTG6828WYEDG at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: "Tom Walker, U of Fla Entomology, Gainesville"
<TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: disappearing journals
I agree with Louis Bjostad that a good way for EOS to keep
publishing is to do it on the Internet.  That would make it
available almost everywhere, immediately, and free.  Would that not
be superior to our present means of primary scientific publication?
The cost of publishing would be about 10 cents per paper, according
to an article in Science (259:1247, 1993).  (and no need for
authors or institutions to pay page charges, buy and mail reprints,
etc.)

Incidentally, if EOS is to become the first entomological journal
to be published on the Internet, it must move fast. The Florida
Entomological Society has committed to publishing Florida
Entomologist on the Internet beginning with the 1994 volume. (This
will not replace the published version, but will be in parallel.)

(When the first issue goes on line, I will post a notice.)

Thomas J. Walker
Department of Entomology & Nematology
University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620
Internet:  TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Bitnet:    TJW at ifasgnv


Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 11:14:07 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: disappearing journals

>I agree with Louis Bjostad that a good way for EOS to keep
>publishing is to do it on the Internet.

Thanks!

>Incidentally, if EOS is to become the first entomological
>journal to be published on the Internet, it must move fast.
>The Florida Entomological Society has committed to
>publishing Florida Entomologist on the Internet beginning
>with the 1994 volume.

Just so you know, this is probably the most important news that has
so far appeared on this list server.

>(This will not replace the published
>version, but will be in parallel.)

This is obviously the way to go, and I'm very impressed that
Florida Ent has taken the lead.  It will provide a model for the
ESA journals to emulate and follow in time.  When you say
"publishing Florida Entomologist on the Internet", can you be more
specific?  Will these be hypertext files for Mosaic, or
encapsulated PostScript files, or text files with companion GIF
files on Gopher (or for ftp), or some combination of the above?
The best way would be to have fairly low tech as one option, and
state of the art as a separate option.  In practice, this probably
means Gopher as the best low-tech option (with a flat text file for
a particular publication and GIF files for the figures), and Mosaic
as the state-of-the-art option (with figures and tables embedded as
hypertext).

To state the obvious, an additional positive consequence of
publishing on the internet is that there will very likely be an
explosion of the use of color photographs to complement journal
articles (probably in well-edited appendices).  Print-publication
of color photographs is expensive and therefore rare.  Internet
publication of color photographs is easy, cheap, and fast.

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 19:32:19 -0400
From: "Tony Clarke"  <TONY at main.tas.for.csiro.au>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject:      electronic journals

The question of internet journals poses a problem.

A large number of scientists, students, field workers, etc, in both
the developed and developing countries do not have ready access to
internet facilities.  Such people rely on hard copy versions of
journals.

But I hear you say, we'll continue to print hardcopy versions.  For
how long?  Scientific publishing is not exactly a profit making
option as it is (look at page charges and the huge subscription
fees that institutes have to pay).  If scientists in the very
affluent nations all read their journals via internet, then the
market will fall out of hardcopy journals, they will become
uneconomic to print. I forsee many journals, particluarly local
journals, dropping their hardcopy versions and going entirely to
soft versions.

I realise that we live in an electronic communications age and that
internet journals are seen by many as a logical technological
progression.  However, I am concerned that we will simply be
increasing the gap between the scientific haves and have nots.
Regards

Tony

Dr Anthony R. Clarke
CRC for Temperate Hardwood Forestry,
Locked Bag No.2,
P.O. Sandy Bay, 7005, Tas., Australia.

Phone: Aust (002) 20 7979
       Internat. 61 02 20 7979
Fax:   Aust (002) 20 7942
       Internat. 61 02 20 7942

"The collecter of insects must, therefore, make up his mind to sink
in the opinion of his friends; to be the object of undisguised pity
and ridicule to the mass of mankind..." (Newman 1835).

Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 21:35:31 -0400
From: "Sanford D. Porter" <SDP at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: electronic journals

Dr. Clarke brings up a legitimate concern about the availability of
journals via the Internet in 3rd world contries.  In the near term
this is a problem, but in the longer term (3-5 years) many or most
of these countries are likey to have connections.  Furthermore,
those that don't will certainly have access to CD-ROM technology.
The same files that are used on the internet can be used on CD-ROM.
The bottom line is that low cost electronic distribution of
scientific information (underwritten by the 1st world) may be the
very key that opens the doors to the third world.  Currently,
subscribtion and mailing costs already make most journal
subscriptions out of reach.  I am looking forward to the day when
all 80 odd years of the Florida Entomologist and other journals can
be distributed free over the Internet or provided at cost on
CD-ROM.  Most US journals are funded primarily by page charges.  If
we we as scientists already pay for the publication of our papers,
then it is certainly in our interests that the articles that we
publish be distributed as freely and widely as possible.

Sanford D. Porter
sdp at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu

USDA-ARS, MAVERL
P.O. Box 14565
Gainesville, Florida 32604   USA


Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 21:55:04 -0400
From: Jonathan Beard <jbeard at panix.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: electronic journals

It is certainly a problem that many Third World countries,
especially in Africa, are poorly served by the Internet--many have
no connection at all--but that does not mean that saving paper
journals benefits them. With paper journals costing $75 to $400 per
year, do you think that Nigerian universities get very many of
them?  It is probably going to be cheaper, with improvements in
satellites and computers, to bring journals to the Third World
electronically. What is sad is that everyone will want to publish
in Science On-Line and Nature On-Line all the more as these spread.
Jonathan

|-----------------------------|------------------------------|
|-Jonathan D. Beard-----------|--Internet jbeard at panix.com---|
|-Science Writer, Translator--|--CompuServe 72301,563--------|
|-Photo Researcher------------|--Voice-212-749-1055----------|
|-820 West End Avenue 3B------|--Fax 212-749-9336------------|
|-New York City 10025-5328----|-Alternate Fax at World Press-|
|-----------------------------|-Review: 212-889-5634---------|
|-----------------------------|------------------------------|


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 04:00:13 -0400
From: zarazaga <zarazaga at cc.csic.es>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Eos & Internet

Dear Netters: I have read attentively all the comments provoked by
my communication of Eos extinction. Particularly interesting is
Louis B. Bjostadt's suggestion on turning Eos into the 1st
electronical journal on entomology. However, I am afraid it is not
going to be possible because of two problems:
     1) Eos redaction has not got the software needed to do so
(although it could be purchased);
     2) (and most important) Eos is primarily a systematic journal,
and, according to the International Code of Zoological
Nomenclature, Arts. 8 & 9 (mainly 9 (6) ), the publication of new
taxa or nomenclatural acts in an electronical medium does not
constitute publication within the meaning of the Code, nor the
computer printouts do.
     I believe I am right in my understanding of the Code, but
comments will be welcome. Unfortunately, I believe also that for
the moment only non-systematic or non-nomenclatural papers could be
envisaged (opinion, ecology, etc.).
Thanks for the ideas, you good ol' chaps!
Please address any subsequent comment directly to me, to avoid net
overflow, if you think comments are too specific.
************************************************************
*    Miguel A. Alonso- Zarazaga (Dr)                       *
*    Depto. de Biodiversidad                               *
*    Museo Nacional de Ciencias Naturales                  *
*    Jose Gutierrez Abascal, 2                             *
*    E-28006 Madrid SPAIN                                  *
*    E-mail   zarazaga at cc.csic.es  (Internet)              *
************************************************************


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 07:44:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walker, U of Fla Entomology, Gainesville"
<TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Electronic publishing by ESA
To: ANNKING at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu

Ann--
I think the best way to get the ESA's attention is to succeed with
putting the Fla Entomol on line.  Things are almost proceeding on
schedule in that regard.  I'll post the details to entomo-l within
the next few days.


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:38:44 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: Ann King <ANNKING at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject:      Re: Eos & Internet

I was the librarian who asked if there were any librarians
interested in forming another list.  Very few replied.  However,
the specific topic I am most interested in has, in fact, now become
a thread which should be followed.  As a librarian I am truly
concerned about the form that future publications will take.  In
libraries, storage, binding and other 'housekeeping' tasks are a
very real factor in maintaining a collection.  Also, as has already
been pointed out so are the ever rising subscription costs.  The
Internet seems to be a very real alternative, but I feel, along
with another on this thread, that if we as publishers go,
eventually, to publishing only on the Internet, a certain lack of
control over the literature then becomes a problem.  What is to be
done if the gopher site 'sinks' where will the journal then be
ported to?  How long would it unavailable?  I have an idea that
many people would think these questions are trivial, but to a
librarian who has to answer these questions frequently they are not
trivial. I personally think that cd-rom would in the long run be a
much better long term solution.  Cornell University is providing
basic agricultural literature on cd-rom to many third world
countries.  I suspect that teaching these students [and even our
own students] will be far easier for the cd-rom than teaching the
use of the Internet. The next factor is that just raised by the
person announcing the demise of EOS.  Taxonomy and sysyematics.
Many journals may contain one or more articles that would be
considered taxonomic.  Will they stop publishing in most journals
if the journals are only available in electronic form? I think this
issue is especially important for consideration by the nomen-
clature bodies [plant and animal] and by the various professional
societies both national and international, before any of the
journals proceeds too far down the electronic path to retreat if it
becomes necessary.
   Sorry if this is too lengthy.  Publishing, and the preservation
of know- ledge in the long term are things that affect us all.
THANKS !!    annking at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu     4/12/94


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 13:16:37 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: electronic journals

>The question of internet journals poses a problem.
>
>A large number of scientists, students, field workers, etc, in
both the developed and developing countries do not have ready
access to internet facilities.  Such people rely on hard copy
versions of journals.

I have cooperators in Guatemala and also in Sri Lanka (you will
notice that both are developing countries), working with very tiny
budgets and with great difficulties in getting journal articles by
surface mail.  In both locations, they have computers connected to
internet and we have exchanged email with no difficulty.  In my own
experience with scientists in developing countries, their computers
on internet have already become a faster, cheaper, more reliable
way to get information than trying to get hard copies of journals
or articles.

>I am concerned that we will simply be
>increasing the gap between the scientific haves and have nots.

I think the gap is being closed (not widened) by computers on
internet.  It is possible to have a computer, an ethernet card, and
a good printer for about $2000.  A library in a developing country
can not buy very many journal subscriptions for $2000.  Pushing
electrons around the world is cheap.  Pushing paper and ink around
the world is expensive.

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 16:00:32 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: Ann King <ANNKING at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject:      Re: electronic journals

May I interject?  cd-roms are rapidly becoming VERY inexpensive to
master and pennies to reproduce.  Most of the information is
already in electronic form, including graphics, charts, and
micrographs and photographs, which are some- times difficult to
transmit over the Internet.  CD-ROMs can be mailed for about the
price of a first class letter.  Links with the Internet could, in
times of struggle,  [Ruwandi, Bosnia] be interrupted.  If you have
the cd-rom you have the information.  You would not be tied to any
outside agency that is beyond your control.  Also think of the
restrictions on satellite control for cultural reasons in Iran and
Saudi Arabia.  Where is your link then?  We are the primary
producers of the information, here in the western hemisphere,
europe,and Russia and we will be probably continue to be unless
disaster strikes.  [who knows?] But if we do not begin to analyze
very carefully where each of our alternatives will lead us [and the
rest of the world of information] we may find ourselves in a
deadend.  annking at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu     4/12/94


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 16:11:02 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: Ann King <ANNKING at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject:      Re: Eos & Internet

The one remaining question is the integrity of the information.
With each down load, errors can [and will] creep into the local
master.  Who will monitor the effect of those errors?  How will
this affect scholarship if the scholar or the librarian ever begins
to 'suspect' the data.  Will there be error-checking that is
sufficient to minimize such errors so our future scholarship will
not be confounded by these errors?  We have 'enough already' in the
print literature. Will electronics with its speed and ability to
proliferate compound errors? Who would be the final authority?
Maybe I am picking nits, but integrity of the literature is crucial
to all of us.  A cd-rom that cannot be altered would I think 'feel'
more reliable that a downloaded file from either a local or a
distant computer.  annking at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu   4/12/94


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 17:46:24 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Eos & Internet

>The one remaining question is the integrity of the information.
With each down load, errors can [and will] creep into the local
master.

Error-checking in computer file transfers is really pretty good
these days. I suspect there are more errors in manuscripts due to
faulty proofreading by the authors than are due to computer file
transfers.
>integrity of the literature is crucial to all of us. A cd-rom that
cannot be altered would I think 'feel' more reliable that a
downloaded file from either a local or a distant computer

I agree that integrity is essential, but I think we're very solidly
based on that score.  CD-ROMs can be lost, stolen, or mutilated,
and are gone forever unless a new one can be bought.  With multiple
internet sites, it is possible for a user to have many options in
getting a particular article, even if some of the sites have shut
down.

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 19:28:02 -0400
From: bruceh at ento.csiro.au (Bruce Halliday)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Electronic publishing

Dear entomologists,

New scientific names for animal taxa published only in electronic
form or in computer printouts would NOT be available for use under
the present International Code of Zoological Nomenclature.

The Code is always under review by the taxonomic community, and the
next edition will contain significant changes, including relaxation
of the rules of Latin grammar. It will also re-define what forms of
publication are acceptable. These changes are being debated in the
Bulletin of Zoological Nomenclature and elsewhere.

But it is certainly not possible to resolve these issues at a
stroke in some ad hoc way. The Code must and will respond to
changes in technology, but at the same time it must not encourage
irresponsible nomenclatural vandalism by making publication too
easy. Stability and universality of names are not fostered by
frequent piecemeal changes to the rules, but by carefully
negotiated consensus.

Bruce Halliday, CSIRO Division of Entomology, Canberra, Australia
bruceh at ento.csiro.au


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 20:18:08 -0400
Message-Id: <9404130010.AA04092 at cerberus.erin.gov.au>
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: GMAYNARD.ABRSCBR at anca.erin.gov.au (Maynard, Glynn)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Electronic Journals

I have a question/comment about the use of electronic publishing -
What happens when, say in 10 years time you wish to look back at
something published in electronic form now and you no longer have
access to the technology that is able to read it. It is already
happening now with double density and high density floppy discs.
May be electronic publishing is cheaper, but for how long do we
have access to the information? Five maybe ten years?  To me this
is of some concern - taxonomists use data that has been "stored"
over many years and will continue to do so.

Glynn Maynard


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:15:27 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: "Tom Walker, U of Fla Entomology, Gainesville"
<TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: electronic journals

MORE THAN YOU WANT TO KNOW about the means of electronically
publishing Florida Entomologist

How to publish the Florida Entomologist on line is not fully
resolved.  However, the concept was proved last year by
electronically publishing three articles from the March 1993 issue
in encapsulated Postscript (.EPS files), enabling recipients to
make the equivalent of photocopies.  The .EPS files were available
by Gopher, by e-mail, and by anonymous FTP.  The problem with .EPS
files is that most entomologists cannot view or print them
conveniently or quickly.
Beginning with the June 1994 issue, the publisher of the Florida
Entomologist can provide EPS files of the articles.  [Previously
page makeup was manual, and our pilot .EPS files were simulations
of the pages of Fla Entomol.]  By coverting the .EPS files to some
other format (for example, Replica files, which can be viewed and
printed with free software), we hope to make access to the
electronic edition of Florida Entomologist easier.

Florida Center for Library Automation is working to perfect an
automated system for converting journal pages to compressed TIF
(which can be viewed and printed with word processors).  We hope to
use their system for the March 1994 issue and all previous volumes
of Fla Entomol.

Thomas J. Walker
Department of Entomology & Nematology
University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620
Internet:  TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Bitnet:    TJW at ifasgnv
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:22:55 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: IASKEVOL at VM.CC.FAMU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Electronic publishing.

Dear entomo-l-ers:
      The debate about electronic publishing is fascinating.
Ironically, it was generated by a debate about peer review, if
memory serves.  The principle is fantastic and the response by
netters enthusiastic, but one has to wonder about the scientific
ramifications of this process.
      For example, let's look back into the taxonomic literature of
by-gone decades, for a moment.  There was a fellow named Jan
Bechyne (may I name names??) who became, by profuse obfuscation and
intentional misinformation, a self-generated world expert on the
Chrysomelidae because no-one else could figure what the hell he was
up to.  He published thousands of pages and thousands of species
descriptions, oodles of genera; principally, he published on the
Neotropical fauna.  God knows how this was humanly possible, but
there it is.  Fortunately for non-chrysomelid folk, he dabbled in
other families only early in the 40's, late 30's, before his work
really went to dogs, but pretty much restricted himself to the
'melids thereafter.  He, among about a dozen others, was hired by
the wealthy industrialist George Frey to describe species and
deposit types with red labels in his Frey Museum (Tutzing, Germany)
(imagine the chagrin of his family, who attempted to have him
declared insane in order to get control of the family $$).
Probably, this Frey phenomenon is familiar to some other
taxonomists, for Frey obtained scarabs, cerambycids and other
collectible families also, even went on some expeditions himself,
and had a stable of taxonomists to work for him.  I can't even
begin to imagine the volume of junk that got published out of that
museum.  The "Entomologische Arbeiten aus dem Museum G. Frey"
published a great deal of this stuff.  Bechyne went on after the
death of Frey and moved to Venezuela, where he carried on his
rampage and finally died himself some 20 years ago or more (I don't
have the dates at hand, sorry).  I did have the number of pages &
number of species described etc. in my head once, but they are
staggering.  During these decades of publication, I seriously doubt
there was any quality control or peer review that had any teeth
whatsoever.
      I felt it necessary to digress somewhat with this story,
because it underscores emphatically a major potential disaster in
systematics.  Just because it's now the 90's doesn't mean that
there aren't plenty of characters out there who are ready and
willing, no doubt only because of naivete, to "publish"
prolifically when the control that editors and reviewers exert, as
well as the financial constraint of hard copy publication, is
lifted because of the ease of electronic publication.  My fear is
that we'll just be faced with a passle of Bechyne's, and we'll then
be faced with totally unresolvable taxonomic chaos.       In short,
the ICZN must, under no circumstances for the foreseeable future,
be coerced or prodded or forced or whatever, into altering the
rules for validation of taxonomic publications, specifically, of
names.
      Respectfully,  Ingolf Askevold   iaskevol at vm.cc.famu.edu


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:51:50 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic publishing

>New scientific names for animal taxa published only in electronic
form >or in computer printouts would NOT be available for use under
the present >International Code of Zoological Nomenclature.

>But it is certainly not possible to resolve these issues at a
stroke >in some ad hoc way.

I absolutely agree that ad hoc solutions are out of the question.
Systematics and the rules that underlie its administration are
central to every activity that goes on in entomology.  A
conservative approach is clearly the way to go, and I visualize the
nomenclatural bodies themselves taking the lead in this, working
through the rules and bylaws they have already established.

>The Code must and will respond to changes in technology, but at
the same time it must not encourage irresponsible nomenclatural
vandalism by making publication too easy. Stability and
universality of names are not fostered by frequent piecemeal
changes to the rules, but by carefully negotiated consensus.

I concur in all respects.  However, it is important for us all to
dispel the myth that electronic publishing is in some way
intrinsically incompatible with good administration of systematic
nomenclature.

One of the real strengths of the internet, compared to individual
mainframe computers at a single site, is reliability.  The high
degree of redundancy made possible by the internet is rapidly
giving us a demise of the idea that computer services originate
from one central box that capriciously "goes down" and denies
information to large numbers of users.


=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:59:27 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Journals

>I have a question/comment about the use of electronic publishing
- What >happens when, say in 10 years time you wish to look back at
something >published in electronic form now and you no longer have
access to the >technology that is able to read it.

New computer technology these days is usually designed to
accommodate nearly all formats that are in common use, either by
importing them directly or by providing conversions to newer
formats. For example, GIF files for figures can be displayed by
IBM, Macintosh, Amiga, and Xwindows. They can also be converted to
other graphics formats such as PICT, JPEG, and TIFF.  When these
formats have long been forgotten, the conversions will still be
available.


=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 11:06:33 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: electronic journals

>How to publish the Florida Entomologist on line is not fully
>resolved.  However, the concept was proved last year by
>electronically publishing three articles from the March 1993
>issue in encapsulated Postscript (.EPS files), enabling
>recipients to make the equivalent of photocopies.

I downloaded and printed all 3 of these, and they were excellent
articles that printed just fine. The main problem was speed.  It
took many, many minutes to print a single short article from the
.EPS format. I think the seat-of-the-pants goal here is to be sure
it is faster to print articles from the library than it is to walk
over to the library and simply photocopy them.

>Florida Center for Library Automation is working to perfect an
>automated system for converting journal pages to compressed TIF
>(which can be viewed and printed with word processors).  We hope
>to use their system for the March 1994 issue and all previous
>volumes of Fla Entomol.

Sounds interesting! Congratulations on making this pioneering
effort.

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 11:22:31 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic publishing.

>Just because it's now the 90's doesn't mean that
>there aren't plenty of characters out there who are ready and
>willing, no doubt only because of naivete, to "publish"
>prolifically when the control that editors and reviewers exert, as
>well as the financial constraint of hard copy publication, is
>lifted because of the ease of electronic publication.  My fear is
>that we'll just be faced with a passle of Bechyne's, and we'll
then >be faced with totally unresolvable taxonomic chaos.

You're right. Peer review is the crux of the issue, just as it is
for print journals.  What keeps us all honest?  The same thing that
keeps us honest with print journals.  We keep the same editorial
boards and peer review systems we already have, but the editors
will send "accepted" manuscripts to a computer server (in addition
to sending them to the printers and then to the distributors).  A
piece of writing (in the scientific sense) isn't a "publication"
just because an author has generated printed copies; it's a
"publication" when the editors of a peer-reviewed journal have
accepted it AND have assigned it a volume number and page numbers.
The same logic applies to electronic publishing, but the editors
will assign (for example) an URL on the World-Wide Web (in addition
to assigning a volume number and page numbers for the print
version).

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:10:40 -0400
Sender: entomo-l at uoguelph.ca
From: CE6431 at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject:      Re: Electronic Journals

Another problem, at this time, is a limited storage time for
magnetic media.  According to some sources, floppies and
laser-disks only last for 20-30 years.  I have some info on this I
got off TIPSHEET, if anyone is interested.

Cheers,
Dave Pehling


    ===========================================
  | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION |
  | 600 128TH ST. S.E.                         |
  | EVERETT, WA.  98208                        |
  |PHONE - (206)338-2400                       |
  |FAX   - (206)338-3994                       |
  |INTERNET  CE6431 at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU         |
   ============================================


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:55:18 -0400
From: Norman F Johnson <nfjohnso at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic pubs & nomenclature

Regarding the last contribution from Louis Bjostad:

>A piece of writing (in the scientific sense) isn't a
"publication" just because an author has generated printed copies;
it's a "publication" when the editors of a peer-reviewed journal
have accepted it AND have assigned it a volume number and page
numbers.

Sorry, but that is simply incorrect.  It is entirely possible, and
legitimate, for an author to "privately" publish articles.  Take a
look at the pubs of A.
A. Girault.

--
Norman F. Johnson                  Phone: (614) 292-6595
Associate Professor                Fax: (614) 292-7774
Director, OSU Insect Coll.         e-mail: Johnson.2 at osu.edu
Department of Entomology, The Ohio State University, 1735 Neil
Avenue,
Columbus, OH  43210


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 18:16:03 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic pubs & nomenclature

>Regarding the last contribution from Louis Bjostad:
>
>>A piece of writing (in the scientific sense) isn't a
>> "publication" just because an author has generated printed
copies; it's a
>> "publication" when the editors of a peer-reviewed journal have
accepted it
>> AND have assigned it a volume number and page numbers.

>Sorry, but that is simply incorrect.  It is entirely possible, and
legitimate,
>for an author to "privately" publish articles.  Take a look at the
pubs of A.
>A. Girault.

I agree fully that the quality of an article always depends
ultimately on the author (not a journal editor), and a good article
is a good article whether it has been peer-reviewed or not.  To be
fair, though, my use of quotation marks and qualifiers was intended
as metaphorical shorthand to separate these issues from the
discussion at hand, which was the possibility that scientists might
use the ease of distribution on the internet as a way to side-step
peer review and deluge the net with low-quality ramblings.

The main issue here is that most print-media scientific journals
with worldwide distribution use peer review as a way of insuring
quality.  This saves all of us from wading through a lot of junk
(mutual coercion, mutually agreed to).  My point is that we can
have our cake and eat it, too.  Just because we begin publishing
electronically on the internet doesn't mean we have to give up peer
review.


=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 18:29:26 -0400
From: bruceh at ento.csiro.au (Bruce Halliday)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Electronic publishing

Dear entomologists,

Taxonomic publication and zoological nomenclature have nothing to
do with peer review. Much taxonomy is published in unrefereed
journals, personal journals, or privately. These outlets meet the
requirements of the Code and the names in them are available. One
of the subjects under debate is whether this situation should be
allowed to continue, or whether there should be some sort of
licensing of journals. But the problems and complexities are
formidable.

By the way, Loius Bjostad, the Code regulates nomenclature, not
systematics.

I agree that electronic publishing is not intrinsically inimical to
taxonomic publication. The problem is that we just don't yet know
how to do it. Taxonomic anarchists do enough damage now in print,
and they will be even more dangerous if modern technology is not
regulated.

History shows that, given the chance, some scientists will "use the
ease of distribution on the internet as a way to side-step peer
review and deluge the net with low-quality ramblings."

If somebody out there is keeping an archive of this discussion,
maybe you could announce it on TAXACOM.

Bruce Halliday, CSIRO Division of Entomology, Canberra, Australia
bruceh at ento.csiro.au


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 18:37:58 -0400
From: risk%sbbiovm.bitnet at utcc.utoronto.ca
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject:      Electronic Publishing: an alternative view

RE: Electronic Entomological Journals

While I agree that posting electronic journals on the Internet is
a good idea, there are some negative factors to consider. As of
1992, there were three electronic journals: (1) Solstice: An
electronic journal of geography & mathematics, (2) Flora Online,
and (3) The Online Journal of Current Clinical Trials (OCCT). Of
these, Flora Online and Solstice have both been online since 1989.
Has anybody read these? Heard of these? Known anyone who has
published in these?  Can you find them at your library?

OCCT was developed specifically to disseminate urgent and vital
medical research data quickly.  OCCT is almost completely paperless
(from submission to publication).  However, the cost is far from
$0.10 per page, & a subscription was $110 in 1992. However
important OCCT is thought to be, I cannot read it at the SUNY-Stony
Brook Medical Library, because they will not subscribe, although
the journal is indexed in BIOSIS (which is hardly free).

Now for some negative views about electronic publishing. (1) Access
to the Internet is not free.  It is actually quite expensive.  Most
of you in academia get free access as a "perk", but most
non-academic organizations must pay, and the cost for many is
prohibitive (if you need to be convinced I challenge you to
retrieve 10 abstracts on your favorite topic from BIOSIS online
through Delphi, CompuServe, or another commercial provider for
under $10.  You just cannot do it right now.) (2) In addition to
the cost of Internet access, there is overhead, which is the cost
of the time you or your secretary must spend downloading, plus the
cost of phone and computer equipment, maintenance, insurance, etc.
One might argue that paper journals are often competitive in cost
to some extent.  Note that for every $1 of research billing, the
true overhead in a university runs another $0.50 to $0.70 or more.
(3) Some non-academic organizations prohibit access to certain
Internet services during business hours. (4) While the mail can be
sent just about anywhere, e-mail cannot, although this will change,
I hope. (5) There is no guarantee whatsoever that electronic
journals will remain free.  Will editors work for free?  Who will
store submitted information for free?  Will printed copies be
distributed for free or at low cost?  Who will keep the records for
free? etc. (6) The Florida Entomologist will continue to publish a
paper version, thus the costs of managing this journal will
certainly increase. (7) There is a strong cultural bias against
publishing in electronic journals.  Why don't we see an electronic
Science or Nature?  The reason is that scientists what to know that
their published work will be archived.  Have you been to scientific
libraries recently?  The computer facilities are typically
appalling.  I can hardly believe that many scientists are willing
to have their work published in electronic-only form. There is just
no reliability concerning electronic journal management yet, and
when it does appear it will not be free. (8) Additional minor
points.  How will manuscript integrity be maintained?  There is
ABSOLUTELY NO security on the Internet.  There have been many cases
lately of false postings.  As far as I can see, the almost complete
lack of true scientific publication on the Internet is due to (a)
cost, (b) cultural bias, (c) lack of suitable archival methodology,
(d) security, and (e) readership numbers.  On this last point we
should all be aware that most computer users are not using the
Internet yet, but when they do, access time may be approximately
equal to overnight mail.  Despite this I look forward to seeing
more electronic journals, more even-sided arguments on this list.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey A. Millstein, Applied Biomathematics, 100 North Country
Road Setauket, New York 11733-1345
Bitnet:   risk at sbbiovm
Internet: risk at sbbiovm.sunysb.edu
Please send confidential items to me at 73750.132 at compuserve.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 23:55:30 -0400
From: lbjostad at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Lou Bjostad)
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Publishing: an alternative view

>Now for some negative views about electronic publishing.
>(1) Access to the Internet is not free.  It is actually quite
expensive.
>(2) In addition to the cost of Internet access, there is overhead.
>(3) Some non-academic organizations prohibit access to certain
Internet services during business hours.
>(4) While the mail can be sent just about anywhere, e-mail cannot.
>(5) There is no guarantee whatsoever that electronic journals will
remain free.

You're right in all respects.  The larger issue, however, is that
libraries filled with print media are even more expensive than
that, by a wide margin.  It's just that the enormous cost paid by
libraries for print-based media is largely invisible to the average
user, who sees it as "free". Moreover, many libraries also rely
heavily on "interlibrary loan", which really means faxing articles
to each other, also at considerable expense. Libraries struggle
harder every year with tight budgets to carry out their central
role as information-providers.  Print media are so expensive, they
are outstripping the rate at which library budgets grow (if they
grow at all).

A big issue here is that the principal mission of libraries is
about to change in a subtle but major way.  We tend to think of
libraries as physical repositories of books and journals, but in
point of fact, their principal function is to solve administrative
problems associated with making information available to a large
number of people.  Your points 1-5 are right on the mark, but the
good news is, these are management issues that libraries are highly
competent to handle.

Our library at Colorado State University did the unthinkable just
a few years ago.  They completely got rid of the paper-based card
catalog and replaced it with a computer-based "card" catalog.  The
computer system works very well, takes only a small fraction of the
floor space occupied by the old card catalog, and is easy to
update.  I've never heard anyone complain about it, nor have I
heard anyone suggest that we should go back to the old paper card
catalog.  I think installing the computer catalog is one of the
smartest moves our CSU library ever made, based on the history of
the last few years.  It seems to me that electronic publication of
mainstream scientific journal articles is a fairly natural
extension of the same good idea.

There are significant hidden costs associated with print-based
libraries: (1)Many salary dollars are consumed simply paying me to
walk around in the library hunting for the articles I want:
   a. walk to the computer catalog to get the call number
   b. walk around looking for the right shelf of journals in the
library
   c. sort through a stack of current journal issues (usually in
random order)
   d. find the right issue, flip to the right page
   e. walk to the copy machine
   f. get out coins (or cash card) from my wallet to make copies
   g. flip pages one by one on the copy machine
   h. put the journal issue on a nearby table for someone else to
put away
   i. repeat all of these steps for the next article I want to get
(2) See step h. above?  You have to pay somebody to put all those
journals back.
(3) Our library does not allow current journal issues to leave the
library, which I think is a wise decision.  However, this forces me
to use copy machines to get the articles I want, at 7 cents a page.
I would prefer just to read them on the computer screen on my desk
for free (or print them for much less than 7 cents a page on my
printer).
(4) It often happens that when I look for an issue of a print-based
journal on a library shelf, the issue isn't there.  It's on a cart
somewhere, ready to be put away.  Often I need to make two trips to
the library to get an article.
(5) The most popular journals (Science, Nature, etc.) are almost
never on the shelves, so I pay to subscribe to them myself to make
sure I can read them, which means additional cost to me personally.
(6) Some information is useful to you on the day you look for it,
but not the day after.  Delays in some cases are effectively
eternal.

=================================================================
Louis B. Bjostad, Entomology Dept.     lbjostad at lamar.colostate.edu
Colorado State University              Phone: 303-491-5987
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA       Fax:   303-491-0564
=================================================================


Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 00:04:36 -0400
From: Jonathan Beard <jbeard at panix.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: advert for journal article service

I am not connected to this in any way, but this service may be of
interest to many biologists.
Jonathan

UnCover Reveal

Available:  April 6, 1994

UnCover Reveal is an exciting new electronic table of contents
alert service.  UnCover users with profiles can create a list of
titles which are of interest to them.  When the next issue of any
of those titles is entered into the UnCover database, the system
will automatically send a copy of the table of contents to the
profiler's e-mail address.  Users may order documents through
Reveal by reply e-mail.

You can access UnCover by using the telnet address
database.carl.org.  When you select UnCover from the menu (number
one), you will be prompted to create a Profile.  After answering a
number of questions (including your name, e-mail address, fax
number, payment information, etc.), you will be given a Profile
Number and asked to provide a Profile Password.  Once you have
created a Profile, you will be ready to search the database and
select titles for the Reveal service.  Each time you access UnCover
you will need to enter your Profile Number and Profile Password.

To create a list of Reveal titles:
1.  Set up a user profile and include your e-mail address and fax
number.
2.  When you access the UnCover database, provide your profile
number and profile password.
3.  Search for a periodical title as you normally would (for
example
    //tjournal of bone and joint surgery), and select the record.
4.  At the end of the record, type REVEAL.


To order articles from Reveal table of contents sent to your e-mail
box:
1.  Reply to the e-mail and include the contents of the message in
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2.  Type the word ORDER on the last line of any articles to be
delivered.
3.  Send the message.


To review your list of Reveal titles, or to delete titles from the
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1.  When you access the UnCover database, provide your profile
number and profile password.
2.  Type REVEAL at the prompt.
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4.  Enter the line number of any titles to be deleted.

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//REVEAL  allows you to view the list of titles you have selected
//PROFILE allows you to view your profile and make changes as
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service.  All articles ordered through UnCover Reveal will be
charged at the $8.50 rate (plus copyright and fax surcharge if
applicable).

You can search the UnCover database at no charge.  The best way to
find titles of interest is to do a search by journal title.  There
are almost 17,000 titles included in UnCover.  We do have a list of
the titles available on floppy disk (ASCII file).  If you would
like a list sent out to you, please provide us with your full
mailing address.

Thank you for your interest.  Please do not hesitate to contact us
again if you have any questions.

E-mail address:  uncover at carl.org
Telnet address:  database.carl.org
--
Melissa Stockton                        Phone:  (303)758-3030
Product Specialist                      FAX:    (303)758-5946
UnCover Company                         E-Mail: mstockto at carl.org

|-----------------------------|------------------------------|
|-Jonathan D. Beard-----------|--Internet jbeard at panix.com---|
|-Science Writer, Translator--|--CompuServe 72301,563--------|
|-Photo Researcher------------|--Voice-212-749-1055----------|
|-820 West End Avenue 3B------|--Fax 212-749-9336------------|
|-New York City 10025-5328----|-Alternate Fax at World Press-|
|-----------------------------|-Review: 212-889-5634---------|
|-----------------------------|------------------------------|


Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 09:52:52 -0400
From: PAUL J JOHNSON <PX53 at SDSUMUS.SDSTATE.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: CARL & UNCOVER REVEAL

Re:  CARL & UNCOVER REVEAL

   Indeed the basic concept and operation of CARL's services are
quite useful, however, one must be cautious on the real cost and
article quality.
   I recently ordered (for the first time) an article from CARL.
The search and order was placed on a Friday morning and the faxed
article arrived Tuesday.  It did not come from Colorado, but from
West Yorkshire, England, and the fax was of poor quality, though
legible.  I received a second fax of the same article the following
day; reason unknown.
  The real cost?  $11.50, for an 11 page article!  The copyright
and fax charges were apparently $3.00.  Obviously, one can imagine
the financial limits of such orders, even with a lucrative grant
budget; and which systematist has one of those?
   So, yes, the service is there, but be aware of the `hidden'
costs. At the same time, I have found that a key word search on
CARL is much faster and more comprehensive than the long walk to
our library and using AGRICOLA; our  2nd World status here does not
allow a subscription to online or Silverplatter BIOSIS.


==========================================
Paul J. Johnson
Assistant Professor & Curator
Insect Museum, Box 2207A
South Dakota State University
Brookings, South Dakota 57007   USA
e-mail: px53 at sdsumus.sdstate.edu
==========================================
"By every conceivable measure, humanity is ecologically abnormal."
                                          - E.O. Wilson
                                            The Diversity of Life


FROM:  V.K. Gupta
University of Florida
Dept. of Entomology/Nematology

X-Comment: Entomology Discussion List

Would you prefer to sit in front of your screen all day long, each
day, or prefer to go out, have fresh air, visit a library, and
browse through journals to see what others are doing. Can you
browse through information online? You may retrieve information
online if you know what you are looking for. Electronic publishing
is good and convenient, but not a replacement for printed material,
particularly when at a later point of time you wish to examine
materials at your convenience.

*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| Virendra K. Gupta, Entomology, Univ. of Florida, Gainesville |
| FL 32611.   TEL: 904-392-1901 ext. 145.   FAX: 904-392-0190. |
| Bitnet: VGUPTA at IFASGNV   Internet:  VGUPTA at GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 11:15:49 -0400
From: Tom Clarke <tclarke at uoguelph.ca>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Publishing: an alternative view

> Electronic publishing is good and convenient, but not a
replacement
> for printed material, particularly when at a later point of time
> you wish to examine materials at your convenience.


     The desire to examine materials at my convenience would be one
of the reasons for electronic publishing, not against.  Most
universities don't lend out journals and similar publications to
undergraduates requiring that I spend a fortune at the photocopier
if I want to identify an insect and the key is published in a
journal. Being able to call up the particular article at home on my
computer via modem and just run through the key from there would
make my life a lot easier.

           -Tom Clarke-

     *'Health' is just another term for bacterial oppression*


Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:49:28 -0400
From: "Virendra K. Gupta, IFAS, Gainesvill"
<VGUPTA at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Publishing: an alternative view

In response to note from Tom Clarke Yes, indeed, electronic search
is very desirable at a later point of time, provided all what you
want is there. Do you envisage that all journals/books/etc/ will be
on-line? Abstracting journals, yet; but perhaps not all others. So
the printed versions should not be abandoned they have theirt own
niche.

*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| Virendra K. Gupta, Entomology, Univ. of Florida, Gainesville |
| FL 32611.   TEL: 904-392-1901 ext. 145.   FAX: 904-392-0190. |
| Bitnet: VGUPTA at IFASGNV   Internet:  VGUPTA at GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*


Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 17:06:45 -0400
From: "Tom Walker, U of Fla Entomology, Gainesville"
<TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <entomo-l at herman.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Publishing: an alternative view

Costs of publication

The costs of electronic vs. traditional publication need to
considered more carefully than the observation that the former is
actually more than $0.10 per page and that a subscription to the
Online Journal of Current Clinical Trials was $110 in 1992.  Here
are six points worth making--

1)Costs of publication include editing, composition, replication
and dissemination.  The price of a publication is based both on
costs and on profits sought.

2)Costs of the two modes do not differ prior to replication/
dissemination.

Electronic composition is becoming the standard for traditional
publication.  Therefore, costs through composition should be the
same.

3)The price of traditional publication is high to the author or
his/her institution.
Univ. Florida (=Florida tax payers) paid $1995 to publish my last
four articles: $1450 for page charges and $543 for 100 reprints
each.  Per page, it paid $10 to J. Ins. Behav (reprints only) and
$110 to Am. Entomol. (page charges & reprints).  [Per 1000 cm2
editorial area, it paid $50 and $247.]

U. Fla. not only buys the reprints, it mails them--often at costs
exceeding the reprints themselves. [With electronic publication,
users print their own copies.]

4)The price of traditional publication is high to libraries.

Its 1993 subscription to Journal of Insect Physiology cost U.
Fla. library $1064, an increase of 651% since 1973 (in inflation
adjusted dollars, and adjusted for number of pages and page size)
Comparable figures for Canadian Entomologist are $190 (cf. $80
for an indiv.) and 255%.

[Pergamon Press has a duty to its stockholders to maximize
profits, and research reported in J. Ins. Physiol. is
indispensable to insect physiologists, who sign away their
copyrights to Pergamon Press.  Scientific societies sometimes
rely on profits from their journals to defray other expenses.]

5)Printing and mailing are costly.

Insecta Mundi, which is desktop composed by the editor, costs
about $18 per page to print ca. 400 copies and mail more than
200.  Fla. Entomol., composed by the printer, costs about $42 per
page for composition and for printing ca. 800 copies and mailing
ca. 600.

6)Posting on the Internet is not costly.

For an institution that has already paid for its Internet
connection, posting an average physics paper (with figures, about
50 kb) cost 10 cents in 1991 (Science 259: 1246-1248).  That is
per *paper* (not per *page*) and costs of hard-disk space have
decreased substantially since 1991.

Thomas J. Walker
Department of Entomology & Nematology
University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620
Internet:  TJW at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Bitnet:    TJW at ifasgnv
ANN H. KING                    904/392-2838
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA          REFERENCE AND COLLECTION MANAGEMENT
MARSTON SCIENCE LIBRARY        BITNET: ANNKING at NERVM
GAINESVILLE, FL 32611-2020     INTERNET:
ANNKING at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU




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