web errors

Ken Kinman kinman at HOTMAIL.COM
Thu May 18 07:37:58 CDT 2000

     I would be interested to learn where you found that "nice" cladogram
with such a glaring error.  Although the so-called "bird-hips" of the
ornithischians and birds are clearly convergences from the primitive
saurischian ("lizard") hip, there is still a vocal minority here in the
U.S.A. (Larry Martin, Alan Feduccia, and others) who adamantly insist that
birds did not evolve from theropods or any other saurischian dinosaurs
     My understanding is that they think birds evolved from one of the
immediate outgroups of Dinosauria, from something related to Lagerpetonidae,
Lagosuchidae, or even Scleromochlidae (the latter thought by many to have
given rise to Pterosaurs).    But the theropod-bird link is backed up by a
great many nested sets of synapomorphies, and although I haven't yet
examined them in detail, the numerous convergences that would be required in
the Feduccia-Martin view is a little hard to swallow.  But I suspect there
may be at least some truth in their objections to the majority view.  Even
the theory that some theropods could be secondarily flightless birds can't
be totally ignored.  Only time and more fossils will tell us for sure.
                    ------Ken Kinman
>From: Dieter Waloßek              <dieter.walossek at BIOLOGIE.UNI-ULM.DE>
>Reply-To: Dieter Waloßek              <dieter.walossek at BIOLOGIE.UNI-ULM.DE>
>Subject: web errors
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:58:09 +0200
>Read your thread with interest. My addition: I wished to get some infos on
>dinosaurs for my lesson and found places (incl. a "nice" cladogram") where
>the ornithischians gave rise to the birds instead of the saurischians - may
>be they thought the special hip would make a good synapo. To retain such
>old errors or better put them up again in this system is one of the big
>flaws that really diminishes the value of WWW.
>         Dieter
>Prof. Dr. Dieter Waloßek
>University professor & Head of the Section for Biosystematic Documentation
>Dean of Studies for Biology
>University of Ulm, Helmholtzstrasse 20, D-89081 Ulm
>Tel. xx49-(0)731-50-31000/50-31001, Fax (0)731-50-31009
>email: dieter.walossek at biologie.uni-ulm.de
>Homepage of the German Society of Systematists GfBS:
>Expert database of (mainly) German-speaking taxonomists/systematists:
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