Understanding evolution problems

John Noyes jsn at NHM.AC.UK
Fri Mar 5 12:30:29 CST 2004

Yes, and many of the best taxonomists/systematists only pay lip service to


At 10:35 AM 3/4/2004 -0700, Mary Barkworth wrote:
>And taxonomists do not ignore the findings of phylogeneticists, but I am
>not ready to buy that systematics = phylogenetics, one reason being that
>it narrows the interpretation of systemtics, unacceptably narrows it in
>my opinion.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Taxacom Discussion List [mailto:TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU]On
>Behalf Of Richard.Zander at MOBOT.ORG
>Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:31 AM
>Subject: Re: Understanding evolution problems
>Nice point, but "our discipline"? "Systematics" is now phylogenetics and
>application to classification. The best phylogeneticists are also good
>taxonomists, but Lammers' point remains valid.
>Richard H. Zander
>Bryology Group
>Missouri Botanical Garden
>PO Box 299
>St. Louis, MO 63166-0299
>richard.zander at mobot.org <mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org>
>Voice: 314-577-5180
>Fax: 314-577-9595
>Bryophyte Volumes of Flora of North America:
>Res Botanica:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas G. Lammers [mailto:lammers at vaxa.cis.uwosh.edu]
>Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:00 AM
>To: Richard.Zander at MOBOT.ORG
>Cc: taxacom at usobi.org
>Subject: Re: Understanding evolution problems
>At 08:57 AM 3/4/04, you wrote:
> >I wonder what an alternative Web site presenting the same topics as the
> >Berkeley site might look like?
>As a bare minimum, it would be intellectually honest and admit that not
>everyone in the systematics community has sworn allegiance to the idea
>Paraphyly Is Anathema.  I really really resent people who act as though
>discipline has reached a concensus on this point and present our
>that way to the outside world.  That is rank dishonesty.

John S. Noyes,
Department of Entomology,
The Natural History Museum,
Cromwell Road,
South Kensington,
London SW7 5BD
Tel.: +44 (0)207 942 5594    Fax.: +44 (0)207 942 5229

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