[Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

[releech at telusplanet.net]

Gentlemen! Enough! Enough!  We need levity.

John, your first sentence below almost defies English Grammar.

Actually, the tortoises were taken to the Indian Ocean Island locations about 
30,000 years ago, about the same time, and by the same people, who peopled 
Australia.  The tortoises were released, allowed to breed, and meant to be food 
for later visits to the islands.  

Robin Leech



Quoting John Grehan <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>:

> Peter et al,
> 
>  
> 
> No, I could not explain how I did not mean that because that was what I
> was trying to say about how the observation was being interpreted. It
> seemed that the observation of the tortoise arrival was seen by the
> authors to be biogeographically significant because it confirmed an
> assumption that they had already made - the assumption being that this
> was how the tortoises arrived at their Indian Ocean island locations. If
> one does not make the assumption, the floatation of the tortoise has no
> necessary biogeographic meaning. And by "no necessary biogeographic
> meaning" I am not saying that it has no biogeographic meaning at all.
> 
>  
> 
> John
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Hovenkamp, P. (Peter) [mailto:Hovenkamp at nhn.leidenuniv.nl] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 4:09 AM
> To: John Grehan; g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> 
>  
> 
> To all empirical scientists on this list: 
> 
>  
> 
> I can't help drawing your attention to the apparent equivalence of these
> two statements:
> 
>  
> 
> "Of course without the assumption the floatation is no more
> biogeographically singificant than  (...)" 
> 
>  
> 
> and
> 
>  
> 
> "An observation is only biogeographically significant if it confirms an
> assumption already made"
> 
>  
> 
> John, could you please explain how you did not mean this?
> 
>  
> 
> Peter Hovenkamp
> 
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Van: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu namens John Grehan
> Verzonden: di 10-4-2007 14:31
> Aan: g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
> Onderwerp: Re: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> 
> I noticed the nice propaganda statement in the link as follows:
> 
> "trans-oceanic dispersal is assumed to be the mechanism by which
> tortoises and many other animals became established on islands
> throughout the world"
> 
> It's propadanda because it implies that everyone makes this assumption.
> Of course without the assumption the floatation is no more
> biogeographically singificant than the thousands of bugs that fly to New
> Zealand every year.
> 
> This all comes down to the dichotomy between the belief that individual
> cases of mobility are the test of biogeography, or whether spatial
> analysis is the test of the biogeographic signficance of individual
> mobility.
> 
> John Grehan
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> > bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Read
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:25 PM
> > To: TAXACOM
> > Subject: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> >
> > Interesting report on a large tortoise which walked out of the sea on
> a
> > Tanzania beach, reckoned to have drifted from Aldabra atoll (740km).
> It
> > had a lovely crop of barnacles.
> >
> > Gerlach, J., Muir, C. & Richmond, M.D. (2006) The first substantiated
> > case of trans-oceanic tortoise dispersal. Journal of Natural History,
> > 40, 2403 - 2408.
> >
> >
> http://www.informaworld.com/openurl?genre=article&title=Journal%20of%20N
> at
> >
> ural%20History&issn=0022%2d2933&volume=40&issue=41&spage=2403&epage=2408
> &d
> >
> oi=10%2e1080%2f00222930601058290&date=2006&atitle=The%20first%20substant
> ia
> >
> ted%20case%20of%20trans%2doceanic%20tortoise%20dispersal&aulast=Gerlach&
> au
> > first=Justin&auinit=D%2e&sid=informa%3ainformaworld
> >
> >
> > Geoff
> > --
> >    Geoff Read <g.read at niwa.co.nz>
> >     http://www.annelida.net/
> >     http://www.niwascience.co.nz/ncabb/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom mailing list
> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom mailing list
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom mailing list
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>