[Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

[John Grehan]

Hey it wouldn't surprise me about the grammar. The question was getting
a bit convoluted, particularly with trying to discern the meaning. So I
did what I could in the few minutes I had.

Always excuses...

John



> -----Original Message-----
> From: releech at telusplanet.net [mailto:releech at telusplanet.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:40 AM
> To: John Grehan
> Cc: Hovenkamp, P. (Peter); g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> 
> Gentlemen! Enough! Enough!  We need levity.
> 
> John, your first sentence below almost defies English Grammar.
> 
> Actually, the tortoises were taken to the Indian Ocean Island
locations
> about
> 30,000 years ago, about the same time, and by the same people, who
peopled
> Australia.  The tortoises were released, allowed to breed, and meant
to be
> food
> for later visits to the islands.
> 
> Robin Leech
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting John Grehan <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>:
> 
> > Peter et al,
> >
> >
> >
> > No, I could not explain how I did not mean that because that was
what I
> > was trying to say about how the observation was being interpreted.
It
> > seemed that the observation of the tortoise arrival was seen by the
> > authors to be biogeographically significant because it confirmed an
> > assumption that they had already made - the assumption being that
this
> > was how the tortoises arrived at their Indian Ocean island
locations. If
> > one does not make the assumption, the floatation of the tortoise has
no
> > necessary biogeographic meaning. And by "no necessary biogeographic
> > meaning" I am not saying that it has no biogeographic meaning at
all.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Hovenkamp, P. (Peter) [mailto:Hovenkamp at nhn.leidenuniv.nl]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 4:09 AM
> > To: John Grehan; g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
> > Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> >
> >
> >
> > To all empirical scientists on this list:
> >
> >
> >
> > I can't help drawing your attention to the apparent equivalence of
these
> > two statements:
> >
> >
> >
> > "Of course without the assumption the floatation is no more
> > biogeographically singificant than  (...)"
> >
> >
> >
> > and
> >
> >
> >
> > "An observation is only biogeographically significant if it confirms
an
> > assumption already made"
> >
> >
> >
> > John, could you please explain how you did not mean this?
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Hovenkamp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Van: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu namens John Grehan
> > Verzonden: di 10-4-2007 14:31
> > Aan: g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> >
> > I noticed the nice propaganda statement in the link as follows:
> >
> > "trans-oceanic dispersal is assumed to be the mechanism by which
> > tortoises and many other animals became established on islands
> > throughout the world"
> >
> > It's propadanda because it implies that everyone makes this
assumption.
> > Of course without the assumption the floatation is no more
> > biogeographically singificant than the thousands of bugs that fly to
New
> > Zealand every year.
> >
> > This all comes down to the dichotomy between the belief that
individual
> > cases of mobility are the test of biogeography, or whether spatial
> > analysis is the test of the biogeographic signficance of individual
> > mobility.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> > > bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Read
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:25 PM
> > > To: TAXACOM
> > > Subject: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage
> > >
> > > Interesting report on a large tortoise which walked out of the sea
on
> > a
> > > Tanzania beach, reckoned to have drifted from Aldabra atoll
(740km).
> > It
> > > had a lovely crop of barnacles.
> > >
> > > Gerlach, J., Muir, C. & Richmond, M.D. (2006) The first
substantiated
> > > case of trans-oceanic tortoise dispersal. Journal of Natural
History,
> > > 40, 2403 - 2408.
> > >
> > >
> >
http://www.informaworld.com/openurl?genre=article&title=Journal%20of%20N
> > at
> > >
> >
ural%20History&issn=0022%2d2933&volume=40&issue=41&spage=2403&epage=2408
> > &d
> > >
> >
oi=10%2e1080%2f00222930601058290&date=2006&atitle=The%20first%20substant
> > ia
> > >
> >
ted%20case%20of%20trans%2doceanic%20tortoise%20dispersal&aulast=Gerlach&
> > au
> > > first=Justin&auinit=D%2e&sid=informa%3ainformaworld
> > >
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > > --
> > >    Geoff Read <g.read at niwa.co.nz>
> > >     http://www.annelida.net/
> > >     http://www.niwascience.co.nz/ncabb/
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> 
> 
>