[Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

Wed Apr 11 12:38:03 CDT 2007

Because the barnacles obviously attached themselves to bird feet (except
for whale barnacles of course).

John Grehan

________________________________

From: Michael A. Ivie [mailto:mivie at montana.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:13 PM
To: releech at telusplanet.net
Cc: John Grehan; TAXACOM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

Why has no one mentioned that the obvious mechanism for barnacles
becoming so widespread is that they are carried from place to place on
floating tortises? :-) 

releech at telusplanet.net wrote: 

Gentlemen! Enough! Enough!  We need levity.

John, your first sentence below almost defies English Grammar.

Actually, the tortoises were taken to the Indian Ocean Island locations
about 
30,000 years ago, about the same time, and by the same people, who
peopled 
Australia.  The tortoises were released, allowed to breed, and meant to
be food 
for later visits to the islands.  

Robin Leech

Quoting John Grehan <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>
<mailto:jgrehan at sciencebuff.org> :

	Peter et al,

	No, I could not explain how I did not mean that because that was
what I
	was trying to say about how the observation was being
interpreted. It
	seemed that the observation of the tortoise arrival was seen by
the
	authors to be biogeographically significant because it confirmed
an
	assumption that they had already made - the assumption being
that this
	was how the tortoises arrived at their Indian Ocean island
locations. If
	one does not make the assumption, the floatation of the tortoise
has no
	necessary biogeographic meaning. And by "no necessary
biogeographic
	meaning" I am not saying that it has no biogeographic meaning at
all.

	John

	________________________________

	From: Hovenkamp, P. (Peter) [mailto:Hovenkamp at nhn.leidenuniv.nl]

	Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 4:09 AM
	To: John Grehan; g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
	Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

	To all empirical scientists on this list: 

	I can't help drawing your attention to the apparent equivalence
of these
	two statements:

	"Of course without the assumption the floatation is no more
	biogeographically singificant than  (...)" 

	and

	"An observation is only biogeographically significant if it
confirms an
	assumption already made"

	John, could you please explain how you did not mean this?

	Peter Hovenkamp

	________________________________

	Van: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu namens John Grehan
	Verzonden: di 10-4-2007 14:31
	Aan: g.read at niwa.co.nz; TAXACOM
	Onderwerp: Re: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

	I noticed the nice propaganda statement in the link as follows:

	"trans-oceanic dispersal is assumed to be the mechanism by which
	tortoises and many other animals became established on islands
	throughout the world"

	It's propadanda because it implies that everyone makes this
assumption.
	Of course without the assumption the floatation is no more
	biogeographically singificant than the thousands of bugs that
fly to New
	Zealand every year.

	This all comes down to the dichotomy between the belief that
individual
	cases of mobility are the test of biogeography, or whether
spatial
	analysis is the test of the biogeographic signficance of
individual
	mobility.

	John Grehan

		-----Original Message-----
		From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-
		bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Read
		Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:25 PM
		To: TAXACOM
		Subject: [Taxacom] Tortoise self-rafting sea voyage

		Interesting report on a large tortoise which walked out
of the sea on

	a

		Tanzania beach, reckoned to have drifted from Aldabra
atoll (740km).

	It

		had a lovely crop of barnacles.

		Gerlach, J., Muir, C. & Richmond, M.D. (2006) The first
substantiated
		case of trans-oceanic tortoise dispersal. Journal of
Natural History,
		40, 2403 - 2408.

http://www.informaworld.com/openurl?genre=article&title=Journal%20of%20N
	at

ural%20History&issn=0022%2d2933&volume=40&issue=41&spage=2403&epage=2408
	&d

oi=10%2e1080%2f00222930601058290&date=2006&atitle=The%20first%20substant
	ia

ted%20case%20of%20trans%2doceanic%20tortoise%20dispersal&aulast=Gerlach&
	au

		first=Justin&auinit=D%2e&sid=informa%3ainformaworld

		Geoff
		--
		   Geoff Read <g.read at niwa.co.nz>
<mailto:g.read at niwa.co.nz> 
		    http://www.annelida.net/
		    http://www.niwascience.co.nz/ncabb/

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