[Taxacom] Why I do this, and Why you should too -- The End

John Grehan jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
Mon Jun 29 14:47:01 CDT 2009


Barry,

I am certainly curious about your experience and evidently Croizat did not lay out biogeography in a way that suited you. But one need not rely solely on Croizat's work. There was a book in 1999 that gave a fairly straightforward overview and outlined methodology with more detailed outlines cited in the literature. It also gave a glossary of terms. There are also some pretty comprehensive analyses published by Heads that illustrate the correlation between biogeography and tectonics.

Perhaps that is still not to your liking, and that's ok. 

I would be interested to see your draft contribution.

John Grehan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Roth
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:36 PM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Why I do this, and Why you should too -- The End
> 
> Well okay, I'll add my few pence (pence being pretty much worthless in the
> States):  years ago I spent many hours poring over Leon Croizat's
> writings, thrilled by the idea that there might be procedures in there I
> could bring to bear on my organisms of interest.  Kudos to the California
> Academy of Sciences library, I had access to all the voluminous text I
> could handle.  I searched the painstakingly compiled data and examples,
> looking for, somewhere, anywhere, a statement of how to DO
> panbiogeography.  Where was the algorithm?  Where were the definitions of
> the unique jargon?
> 
> Along came Platnick, Rosen, and Nelson with their combination of
> vicariance biogeography and cladistic analysis -- clearly and
> elegantly laid out -- and I thought my grail quest was over.  Then Croizat
> spoke ex cathedra, no, that wasn't it at all.  I entered into a
> collaboration with a colleague who had actually visited the Great Man, and
> I thought I'd get the insight I needed; but when I presented to him my
> contribution to our planned paper, he said our ideas on biogeography were
> so far apart, there was no point in continuing our collaboration.  It was
> not Leon Croizat's or anyone else's fault that my friend acted that way.
> But it was in keeping with what I have come to view as the bait-and-switch
> nature of the practice of panbiogeography.
> 
> I'm grateful for important insights such as the discrediting of the
> "center of origin" concept and the refusal to ask essentially fatuous
> "where did they come from"-style questions.  At least some of these
> insights may have had their origins in panbiogeography.  But to this day I
> regard my foray into panbiogeography as, if not a complete waste of time,
> an ultimately blind alley.
> 
> Thanks to Mike Ivie for sticking with this thread as long as he did.
> 
> Barry Roth
> 
> --- On Mon, 6/29/09, mivie at montana.edu <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Taxacomers,
> 
> Any of you who are still reading this stuff must be wondering why I keep
> at it?  They are now down to the rather helpless whimpering of quoting
> incoherent paragraphs of holy texts, but however down, still not out.
> Well, thank you to the many who have written off list to support me, but
> it is time more of you stepped up and participated.
> 
> [...]I have spent a large amount of time the last few days, and taken a
> lot of
> yours, to try to show the cult nature of this pseudo-science.  It reliance
> on authority, circularity, cherry-picking of certain outcomes and holy
> texts, plus the missionary zeal and diversionary tactics of its chief
> proponents exposes it for what it is.  The tactic of going sideways when
> logically pinned is what happens when those same type of people press your
> door bell and want to just "discuss things" with you.
> 
> It is now your turn to show the susceptible among us where you stand.  I
> am finished, my efforts, poor as they have been, are what I have.
> 
> Michael Ivie
> 
> 
> 
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