[Taxacom] Our Monkey Ancestors

Stephen Thorpe s.thorpe at auckland.ac.nz
Thu Jan 14 14:41:44 CST 2010

>What shall we make of this scientific discovery?
It is worse than that: cladistically speaking, either (1) humans, monkeys, birds, frogs, etc. are all fish; or (2) there is no such thing as fish (cladistically speaking) - they are just a paraphyletic assemblage of plesiomorphic vertebrates ... If (2), then all those fishing quota laws are about something that doesn't exist! :)

From: Richard Zander [Richard.Zander at mobot.org]
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 5:13 a.m.
To: Stephen Thorpe; Kenneth Kinman; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Our Monkey Ancestors

Monkeys paraphyletic w.r.t. apes? Are they then paraphyletic w.r.t.
humans? Are humans cladistically monkeys following the principle of
holophyly? What shall we make of this scientific discovery?

Richard H. Zander
Voice: 314-577-0276
Missouri Botanical Garden
PO Box 299
St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
richard.zander at mobot.org
Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site:

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:06 PM
To: Kenneth Kinman; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Our Monkey Ancestors

I just want to point out that it is easy to criticise others with
different views, but in this case if, as you say, monkeys are
paraphyletic w.r.t. apes, then a person who "lumps apes in with monkeys"
has actually got a good point, cladistically speaking! And spiders do
tend to be studied in entomology departments, and often in entomology
journals, so one could be charitable and interpret "insects" in the wide
sense of insects and allies, rather than in the strict sense of Hexapoda
(and what about Parainsecta, are they insects? It gets complicated ...)

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