[Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand distributions)

John Grehan jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
Mon Jul 26 10:43:19 CDT 2010


And there is a tiger moth genus with wingless females that occurs in NZ (maybe Australia, but I don't remember) and in S America all the way up the Andean region and I think it is in the Caribbean. Evidently it could not make its way to eastern S America but had no trouble hitching a ride on a Nothofagus log over the Pacific, maybe with some mycorrhizae in its handbag (Yes I'll probably get hit for that bit of miss-placed humor).

John Grehan

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of buyck at mnhn.fr
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:34 AM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand distributions)

The fungal component would also favour a vicariance rather than  
dispersal.... ectomycorrhiza, as the name implies, are not 'in' but  
'outside' the fine roots of the tree forming a sheet of fungal tissue  
around it. I can not imagine that the fungus would survive a journey  
in salty water or that fungal spores and germinating nothofagus seeds  
would arrive exactly in the same spot and germinate so close to each  
other that they can enter in symbiosis immediately after germination,  
because this is what needs to happen. Driftwood would not disperse the  
symbiosis, and a rafting hypothesis should at least have to imply a  
'small island bearing part of the vegetation'.

bart

Quoting John Grehan <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>:

> The whole of the question of dispersal is moot. Nothofagus subgenera  
>  have vicariant main massings which suggests that their original   
> distributions were also vicariant and therefore fragments of an   
> already widespread ancestor. If Nothofagus was just floating around   
> all over the place there would not be this distinctive pattern.
>
> John Grehan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu   
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth   
> Kinman
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:33 AM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: [Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand distributions)
>
>  Dear All,
>         Question:  If a large Nothofagus tree (with
> ripening fruit attached), or an island-like clump of a number of such
> trees, floated in fast-moving currents from Chile to New Zealand, would
> some of the ectomycorrhizae in their roots survive the journey?  If so,
> such dispersal of whole trees would preserve the symbiosis. The fruits
> release their seeds and the fungus (or its spores) is also there to
> continue the symbiosis in New Zealand.  Nothofagus driftwood is known to
> have floated from South America to Tasmania, so the shorter trip to New
> Zealand would presumably be an even less rare event.
>              --------Ken
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> buyck at mnhn.fr wrote:
> Dear taxacom-botanists,
> There is one element missing in the discussion of Nothofagus and it
> seems very essential to me : Nothofagus is an obligatory symbiotic tree
> with specific terrestrial, ectomycorrhizal fungi. Seed dispersal over
> long distances may have happened and even germination, but subsequent
> development of the plant is very unlikely without the specific fungal
> symbionts being present. You can not discuss the dispersal of a
> symbiosis and completely ignore the evolutionary history of (one or more
> of) the implicated partner(s). One publication that briefly discusses
> this element is Pirozynski KA. 1983. Pacific Mycogeography: an
> appraisal. Australian. Journal of Botany Supplementary Series 10:
> 137-159
> bart
>
>
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