[Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand distributions)

John Grehan jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
Tue Jul 27 07:39:49 CDT 2010


There is nothing about the entirety of Gondwana that explaining
Nothofagus. Nothofagus is a Pacific, not Gondwanic, group.

I presume the reference to post break up dispersal for fuchsia etc are
derived from molecular clock misrepresentations that fail to recognize
the reality that their estimates are always minimal and unable to
falsify earlier origins. This duplicity is one of the tragedies of
'modern' biogeography. 

John Grehan

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
Lyn.Craven at csiro.au
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:31 AM
To: Don.Colless at csiro.au; kennethkinman at webtv.net;
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand distributions)

 

Austral biogeography is fascinating, all the more so because one or two
swallows do not make a Spring.    The present distributions both of
Don's Diptera and of Nothofagus may require explanation requiring a more
or less entire Gondwana.    But the distributions of, for example,
Fuchsia, Taraxacum and other daisies, and it would seem the ratites in
the light of recent publications, are indicative of a post break-up
dispersal.    

The distribution of soil symbionts adds spice.  What is known about the
symbionts of Nothofagus?     Do they occur widely and outside the
present range of Nothofagus (i.e. which came first, the mycorhiza or
Nothofagus)?    Does Nothofagus only associate with a limited number of
species/genera of symbiont, or is it more catholic in its requirements?

Regards,     Lyn



-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
Don.Colless at csiro.au
Sent: Tuesday, 27 July 2010 1:02 PM
To: kennethkinman at webtv.net; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: [ExternalEmail] Re: [Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand
distributions)

There are many taxa (mainly genera) of the "Lower" (i.e. ancient)
Diptera that occur in SE Australia, New Zealand (some), and
Chile-Patagonia - and not in the northern hemisphere. Trans-ocean
dispersal seems extremely improbable, when compared with Gondwanan
vicariance. Lars Brundin even made a detailed cladistic analysis of a
single subfamily of Chironomidae and demonstrated extremely convincing
patterns.   
 
Donald H. Colless
CSIRO Div of Entomology
GPO Box 1700
Canberra 2601
don.colless at csiro.au
tuz li munz est miens envirun

________________________________________
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kinman
[kennethkinman at webtv.net]
Sent: 27 July 2010 00:33
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: [Taxacom] Nothofagus (Chile-New Zealand distributions)

 Dear All,
        Question:  If a large Nothofagus tree (with ripening fruit
attached), or an island-like clump of a number of such trees, floated in
fast-moving currents from Chile to New Zealand, would some of the
ectomycorrhizae in their roots survive the journey?  If so, such
dispersal of whole trees would preserve the symbiosis. The fruits
release their seeds and the fungus (or its spores) is also there to
continue the symbiosis in New Zealand.  Nothofagus driftwood is known to
have floated from South America to Tasmania, so the shorter trip to New
Zealand would presumably be an even less rare event.
             --------Ken

----------------------------------------------
buyck at mnhn.fr wrote:
Dear taxacom-botanists,
There is one element missing in the discussion of Nothofagus and it
seems very essential to me : Nothofagus is an obligatory symbiotic tree
with specific terrestrial, ectomycorrhizal fungi. Seed dispersal over
long distances may have happened and even germination, but subsequent
development of the plant is very unlikely without the specific fungal
symbionts being present. You can not discuss the dispersal of a
symbiosis and completely ignore the evolutionary history of (one or more
of) the implicated partner(s). One publication that briefly discusses
this element is Pirozynski KA. 1983. Pacific Mycogeography: an
appraisal. Australian. Journal of Botany Supplementary Series 10:
137-159
bart


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