[Taxacom] another human-orangutan similarity

John Grehan jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
Wed Jan 12 22:31:57 CST 2011

I agree that the Y and V formation of itself is not definitive for any
of the large bodied hominoids, but the larger number of papillae in each
formation is uniquely shared for African apes and orangutans/humans

Naturally if one believes in the infallibility of DNA base sequence
similarities created by alignment then one would naturally only be
interested in corroborating morphogenetic patterns of similarity. So far
they are lacking. Hence the annoyance of the orangutan evidence.

John Grehan 

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kinman
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:27 PM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] another human-orangutan similarity

Hi John, 
      Sorry, but the observation that the New World monkeys (with a
maximum of just five such papillae) results in both Y an V formations
seems to indicate just how homoplastic such formations can be.  The time
spent on this character may have been better spent on molecular data (in
spite of how much you seem to distrust it in general).        
       Frankly I would be more exicted about other possible
synapomorphies shared between chimpanzees and gorillas (as a possible
clade exclusive of humans and australopithecines).  That could easily
make human-orangutan similiarities largely plesiomorphic for the great
apes.  It is an interesting (but largely overlooked) third possible
alternative cladistic topology.            

John Grehan wrote:
     In New World monkeys the usual number is three or less. A few
species may go to about five in a Y or V formation. 


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