[Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys

Simon TILLIER tillier at mnhn.fr
Thu Jan 13 09:38:42 CST 2011


Dear John et al,
Even very cheap, publication, whether electronic or in print, has a cost and
someone has to pay. In addition, taxonomic publications have to be
permanently available and this also has a cost. The question is to determine
who should and can pay.
My position (which so far the MNHN position) is that scientific knowledge is
a public good, which should not be controlled by any private interest,
regarding as well its production as its availability, and should be made
accessible for free to everybody (as far as this is possible in the real
world). Regarding long term availability, so far only public institutions
have been able to maintain knowledge infrastructures (collections,
libraries) in the long term, in some cases since earlier than 1758. In my
view accepting electronic only taxonomic publication implies a publicly
controlled permanent e-repository.
This is basically why we still have a professional publishing department at
the MNHN, and encompass a new e-journal upon which only public institutions
have control, and totally free of charge as well for authors as for users.
This is not at all against private publishing (what would science look like
without private publishers?), but rather the expression of what we consider
part of our mission as a public scientific institution.
Simon Tillier
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle

-----Message d'origine-----
De : taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] De la part de John Noyes
Envoyé : jeudi 13 janvier 2011 13:32
À : Dave Roberts; taxacom taxacom
Objet : Re: [Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys

Dear Dave and Donat,

You can argue both ways, but personally I have nothing against
electronic only publication. That would then lead the way to "free
publishing". It has been suggested that electronic only publication
should be allowed only if electronic copies of the whole publication
were to be deposited on GenBank and made freely available. At first I
was against this, but now I am all for it. This would probably have the
effect of "speeding up" taxonomy. On the other hand, publication of
taxonomy would become so cheap and easy that it might lead to a dramatic
lowering of standards.

John 

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Entomology
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD 
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
 
Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about
chalcidoids and more):
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/chalcidoids/
or
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/entomology/chalcidoids
 
Interactive catalogue and biological database of World Chalcidoidea on
CD:
Contact the publisher: DickyS._Yu at telus.net, or Dicky S. Yu, P.O.Box
48205, Bentall Centre, Vancouver B.C., V7X 1N8, CANADA; see also
www.taxapad.com  
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Roberts [mailto:workpackage6 at gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 12:02
To: taxacom taxacom
Cc: John Noyes
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys

Dear John,

by comparison to most journals, 15 euros is astonishingly cheap.  Those
same taxonomists who can't afford to get their work published will also
not be able to afford journal subscription charges to read the
literature either.

Realistically, for the impecunious, the only way to get such work into
the public domain is to publish direct to the web and forgo the paper
product altogether.  Would that be such a bad thing?  Views in Taxacom
are strongly divided and likely to remain so.  Put it on the web and get
the acknowledgement of your peers.  If what you say about most
descriptive work being done by such unfunded folk, then we will see a
rapid transition away from paper.  If, on the other hand, these
impecunious taxonomists continue to use traditional publishers, the
problem of access to work gets worse and descriptive taxonomy will
decline into a ghetto.

Cheers,  Dave
--
On 13 Jan 2011, at 11:36, John Noyes wrote:

> Lyubomir,
> 
> Yes, but the fact remains that a price of 15 Euros per page is beyond
> the reach of many, especially in Europe and developing countries where
> taxonomists often do not have funding to cover such costs. We are fast
> approaching as time (maybe we are already there) where most
descriptive
> taxonomic work will be done by amateurs (hopefully good ones) or
retired
> taxonomists who do not have access to such funds. Even with a 10% or
20%
> discount these charges are still beyond the means of many, especially
> those publishing larger, monographic works.
> 
> John 
> 
> John Noyes
> Scientific Associate
> Department of Entomology
> Natural History Museum
> Cromwell Road
> South Kensington
> London SW7 5BD 
> UK
> jsn at nhm.ac.uk
> Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
> Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
> 
> Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about
> chalcidoids and more):
> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/chalcidoids/
> or
> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/entomology/chalcidoids
> 
> Interactive catalogue and biological database of World Chalcidoidea on
> CD:
> Contact the publisher: DickyS._Yu at telus.net, or Dicky S. Yu, P.O.Box
> 48205, Bentall Centre, Vancouver B.C., V7X 1N8, CANADA; see also
> www.taxapad.com  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of L Penev
> Sent: 13 January 2011 10:57
> To: Bob Mesibov
> Cc: TAXACOM
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys
> 
> Brian:
> 
> The "horrendous" price of ZooKeys is EUROs 15 per page (besides the
> discounts/waivers - thanks, Bob, for this clarification!) and include
> producing of PDF, semantically enhanced HTML and XML versions,
> full-color
> print (at no additional cost), automated dissemination of published
> information and several other components of advanced publishing
> practices. I
> really would like to know about other journals in biodiversity or
other
> domains that offer all these services for this price.
> 
> Apart from the services themselves, the price also includes unlimited
> and
> free access to all published content.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lyubomir
> 
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Bob Mesibov
> <mesibov at southcom.com.au>wrote:
> 
>> Brian Taylor wrote:
>> 
>> "Some one suggested Zookeys to me but the page charges are horrendous
> for
>> someone, in my case retired, without access to any substantial
> external
>> funding."
>> 
>> ZooKeys waives charges in such cases. From the ZooKeys website:
>> 
>> Discounts and Waivers
>> 
>> Open Access Publication Fees are usually covered by institutional
> funds and
>> grants. We understand, however, that many scientists work either
> privately,
>> or under harsh financial conditions, or continue enjoying their work
> after
>> retirement. Therefore, this journal offers the following discount and
> waiver
>> options:
>> 
>>   * Discount of 10 % is offered to:
>>         o Scientists working privately
>>         o Members of institutions who have subscribed for the print
>> version of this journal
>>         o Graduate and PhD students, if they are first authors
>>         o Scientists living and working in lower-middle-income
> countries (
>> http://www.worldbank.org/data/countryclass/classgroups.htm), if they
> are
>> sole authors of a manuscript.
>>   *  Discount of 15 % is offered to:
>>         o The journal's editors and active reviewers (3 or more
> reviewed
>> manuscripts during the previous and present calendar year)
>>   * Waivers (once per year per (co-) author, for manuscripts not
> larger
>> than 10 printed pages, or for the first 10 pages of a larger
> mansucript) are
>> offered to:
>>         o Retired scientists
>>         o Scientists living and working in low-income countries (
>> http://www.worldbank.org/data/countryclass/classgroups.htm), if they
> are
>> sole authors of a manuscript.
>> 
>> --
>> Dr Robert Mesibov
>> Honorary Research Associate
>> Queen Victoria Museum and Art Gallery, and
>> School of Zoology, University of Tasmania
>> Home contact: PO Box 101, Penguin, Tasmania, Australia 7316
>> Ph: (03) 64371195; 61 3 64371195
>> Webpage: http://www.qvmag.tas.gov.au/?articleID=570
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr Lyubomir Penev
> Managing Director
> Pensoft Publishers
> 13a Geo Milev Street
> 1111 Sofia, Bulgaria
> Fax +359-2-8704282
> www.pensoft.net
> info at pensoft.net
> _______________________________________________
> 
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-- 
Dr D.McL. Roberts,        Tel: +44 (0)20 7942 5086
European Distributed Institute of Taxonomy Project,
Coordinator WorkPackage 6 (Unifying Revisionary Taxonomy),
Dept. Zoology,
The Natural History Museum,
Cromwell Road,
London        SW7 5BD
Great Britain             Email: dmr at nomencurator dot org
Web page:  http://scratchpads.eu
Web page:  http://www.editwebrevisions.info/
--
"You can't just ask customers what they want and then try and give it to
them.  By the time you get it built, they'll want something new." [Steve
Jobs, quoted in The Guardian, Technology Section, 25 June 09].
--






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