[Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys

Dr Brian Taylor dr.brian.taylor at ntlworld.com
Fri Jan 14 02:21:47 CST 2011


Hello Taxacomers,

I am pleased I stirred up a hornet's nest and let's keep it going.  The
general trend of the replies is as I hoped.

To suggest cheap and easy might lead to a lowering of standards probably
goes against the grain for most trying to publish taxonomy.  Even so,
spurious taxonomy will surely damage no-one, as opposed, e.g., to false drug
research.  Over time, taxonomy is self-correcting by virtue of synonymy.
That fact that also argues against the obsession with peer review in a
sphere of expertise where an individual may be the sole true expert.

I note we have not heard from Zoobank, to which I referred, not Genbank, and
the ICZN remains quiet.

Thanks anyway,

Brian

Brian Taylor
Ants of Africa


On 13/01/2011 15:38, "Simon TILLIER" <tillier at mnhn.fr> wrote:

> Dear John et al,
> Even very cheap, publication, whether electronic or in print, has a cost and
> someone has to pay. In addition, taxonomic publications have to be
> permanently available and this also has a cost. The question is to determine
> who should and can pay.
> My position (which so far the MNHN position) is that scientific knowledge is
> a public good, which should not be controlled by any private interest,
> regarding as well its production as its availability, and should be made
> accessible for free to everybody (as far as this is possible in the real
> world). Regarding long term availability, so far only public institutions
> have been able to maintain knowledge infrastructures (collections,
> libraries) in the long term, in some cases since earlier than 1758. In my
> view accepting electronic only taxonomic publication implies a publicly
> controlled permanent e-repository.
> This is basically why we still have a professional publishing department at
> the MNHN, and encompass a new e-journal upon which only public institutions
> have control, and totally free of charge as well for authors as for users.
> This is not at all against private publishing (what would science look like
> without private publishers?), but rather the expression of what we consider
> part of our mission as a public scientific institution.
> Simon Tillier
> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] De la part de John Noyes
> Envoyé : jeudi 13 janvier 2011 13:32
> À : Dave Roberts; taxacom taxacom
> Objet : Re: [Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys
> 
> Dear Dave and Donat,
> 
> You can argue both ways, but personally I have nothing against
> electronic only publication. That would then lead the way to "free
> publishing". It has been suggested that electronic only publication
> should be allowed only if electronic copies of the whole publication
> were to be deposited on GenBank and made freely available. At first I
> was against this, but now I am all for it. This would probably have the
> effect of "speeding up" taxonomy. On the other hand, publication of
> taxonomy would become so cheap and easy that it might lead to a dramatic
> lowering of standards.
> 
> John 
> 
> John Noyes
> Scientific Associate
> Department of Entomology
> Natural History Museum
> Cromwell Road
> South Kensington
> London SW7 5BD 
> UK
> jsn at nhm.ac.uk
> Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
> Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
>  
> Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about
> chalcidoids and more):
> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/chalcidoids/
> or
> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/entomology/chalcidoids
>  
> Interactive catalogue and biological database of World Chalcidoidea on
> CD:
> Contact the publisher: DickyS._Yu at telus.net, or Dicky S. Yu, P.O.Box
> 48205, Bentall Centre, Vancouver B.C., V7X 1N8, CANADA; see also
> www.taxapad.com  
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Roberts [mailto:workpackage6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2011 12:02
> To: taxacom taxacom
> Cc: John Noyes
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys
> 
> Dear John,
> 
> by comparison to most journals, 15 euros is astonishingly cheap.  Those
> same taxonomists who can't afford to get their work published will also
> not be able to afford journal subscription charges to read the
> literature either.
> 
> Realistically, for the impecunious, the only way to get such work into
> the public domain is to publish direct to the web and forgo the paper
> product altogether.  Would that be such a bad thing?  Views in Taxacom
> are strongly divided and likely to remain so.  Put it on the web and get
> the acknowledgement of your peers.  If what you say about most
> descriptive work being done by such unfunded folk, then we will see a
> rapid transition away from paper.  If, on the other hand, these
> impecunious taxonomists continue to use traditional publishers, the
> problem of access to work gets worse and descriptive taxonomy will
> decline into a ghetto.
> 
> Cheers,  Dave
> --
> On 13 Jan 2011, at 11:36, John Noyes wrote:
> 
>> Lyubomir,
>> 
>> Yes, but the fact remains that a price of 15 Euros per page is beyond
>> the reach of many, especially in Europe and developing countries where
>> taxonomists often do not have funding to cover such costs. We are fast
>> approaching as time (maybe we are already there) where most
> descriptive
>> taxonomic work will be done by amateurs (hopefully good ones) or
> retired
>> taxonomists who do not have access to such funds. Even with a 10% or
> 20%
>> discount these charges are still beyond the means of many, especially
>> those publishing larger, monographic works.
>> 
>> John 
>> 
>> John Noyes
>> Scientific Associate
>> Department of Entomology
>> Natural History Museum
>> Cromwell Road
>> South Kensington
>> London SW7 5BD 
>> UK
>> jsn at nhm.ac.uk
>> Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
>> Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
>> 
>> Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about
>> chalcidoids and more):
>> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/chalcidoids/
>> or
>> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/entomology/chalcidoids
>> 
>> Interactive catalogue and biological database of World Chalcidoidea on
>> CD:
>> Contact the publisher: DickyS._Yu at telus.net, or Dicky S. Yu, P.O.Box
>> 48205, Bentall Centre, Vancouver B.C., V7X 1N8, CANADA; see also
>> www.taxapad.com 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of L Penev
>> Sent: 13 January 2011 10:57
>> To: Bob Mesibov
>> Cc: TAXACOM
>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Publishing in ZooKeys
>> 
>> Brian:
>> 
>> The "horrendous" price of ZooKeys is EUROs 15 per page (besides the
>> discounts/waivers - thanks, Bob, for this clarification!) and include
>> producing of PDF, semantically enhanced HTML and XML versions,
>> full-color
>> print (at no additional cost), automated dissemination of published
>> information and several other components of advanced publishing
>> practices. I
>> really would like to know about other journals in biodiversity or
> other
>> domains that offer all these services for this price.
>> 
>> Apart from the services themselves, the price also includes unlimited
>> and
>> free access to all published content.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Lyubomir
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Bob Mesibov
>> <mesibov at southcom.com.au>wrote:
>> 
>>> Brian Taylor wrote:
>>> 
>>> "Some one suggested Zookeys to me but the page charges are horrendous
>> for
>>> someone, in my case retired, without access to any substantial
>> external
>>> funding."
>>> 
>>> ZooKeys waives charges in such cases. From the ZooKeys website:
>>> 
>>> Discounts and Waivers
>>> 
>>> Open Access Publication Fees are usually covered by institutional
>> funds and
>>> grants. We understand, however, that many scientists work either
>> privately,
>>> or under harsh financial conditions, or continue enjoying their work
>> after
>>> retirement. Therefore, this journal offers the following discount and
>> waiver
>>> options:
>>> 
>>>   * Discount of 10 % is offered to:
>>>         o Scientists working privately
>>>         o Members of institutions who have subscribed for the print
>>> version of this journal
>>>         o Graduate and PhD students, if they are first authors
>>>         o Scientists living and working in lower-middle-income
>> countries (
>>> http://www.worldbank.org/data/countryclass/classgroups.htm), if they
>> are
>>> sole authors of a manuscript.
>>>   *  Discount of 15 % is offered to:
>>>         o The journal's editors and active reviewers (3 or more
>> reviewed
>>> manuscripts during the previous and present calendar year)
>>>   * Waivers (once per year per (co-) author, for manuscripts not
>> larger
>>> than 10 printed pages, or for the first 10 pages of a larger
>> mansucript) are
>>> offered to:
>>>         o Retired scientists
>>>         o Scientists living and working in low-income countries (
>>> http://www.worldbank.org/data/countryclass/classgroups.htm), if they
>> are
>>> sole authors of a manuscript.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dr Robert Mesibov
>>> Honorary Research Associate
>>> Queen Victoria Museum and Art Gallery, and
>>> School of Zoology, University of Tasmania
>>> Home contact: PO Box 101, Penguin, Tasmania, Australia 7316
>>> Ph: (03) 64371195; 61 3 64371195
>>> Webpage: http://www.qvmag.tas.gov.au/?articleID=570
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dr Lyubomir Penev
>> Managing Director
>> Pensoft Publishers
>> 13a Geo Milev Street
>> 1111 Sofia, Bulgaria
>> Fax +359-2-8704282
>> www.pensoft.net
>> info at pensoft.net
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