[Taxacom] gorilla-chimp

John Grehan jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
Sat Jan 15 18:59:12 CST 2011


Ken,

If you bothered to read Schwartz's work you would find that karyotypic evidence, although like all the other karyotypic evidence that is usually quoted in favor of the African ape-human relationship it is problematic because gibbons are the only  outgroup. Anyway, you admit karyotypes are useless without the authority of LINEs and SINEs so irrelevant anyway.

John Grehan 

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kinman
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 7:50 PM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] gorilla-chimp

Hi Michael,
       Unfortunately, I know of no reference which brings together the scattered literature and data on SINEs and LINEs in gorillas and chimps.
Hopefully, whoever is doing a paper on comparing the whole genomes of
the great apes will do so (as well as on karyotypic data).       
       In one paper that I found yesterday, the last lines of the abstract note a trend where many human chromosomes have a more ancestral karyotype, "while African great apes present with more derived
chromosome arrangements."   While orangutan karyotypes seem to show that
ALL of their chromosomes are of the ancestral great ape arrangement (I have seen no karyotypic data which supports hominids clading exclusively with orangutans; sorry John).  My experience has been that karyotypic
data seems to strongly support my preferred phylogeny:                              
      orangutan (hominid (chimp, gorilla))                Anyway, he is
a weblink to the abstract of that paper:      

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15545720 

        Of course, karyotypic data alone is not enough, and it needs to be supplemented and corroborated by SINEs and LINEs.  For example, Yue et al., 2005 (Genomics, 85:36-37) state that "Approximately 200 kB of the human 3q21.3 sequence was not present on the homologous orangutan, siamang and Old World monkey chromosomes."
However, it is present in chimps and gorillas, as well as humans.
Unfortunately this particular LINE is only evidence of the larger hominid-chimp-gorilla clade, and has no bearing on chimp-gorilla clade vs. chimp-hominid clade.  A thorough whole genome study of the great apes should provide a wealth of information beyond just SINEs and LINES.
I can hardly wait!!!  Anyway, I don't plan to do much more literature searching until such a study comes out.
       ---------Ken
----------------------------------------------
Michael wrote:
          can you give us a reference for the SINES/LINES data on gorilla-chimp?  


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