[Taxacom] Xanthocyparis (was: Validation of taxon names)

Paul van Rijckevorsel dipteryx at freeler.nl
Sun Feb 19 10:55:40 CST 2012


Yes, which was why I phrased it as I did.

The taxonomy is about as hellish as it gets, but (nomenclatural)
Congresses do not make decisions on taxonomy.

Paul
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John McNeill 
  To: dipteryx at freeler.nl ; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
  Cc: jmcneill at rbge.ac.uk ; kennethkinman at webtv.net 
  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Xanthocyparis (was: Validation of taxon names)


  I too was puzzled by Ken Kinman's comment as Xanthocyparis was indeed conserved against the earlier Callitropsis at the International Botanical Congress in Melbourne last July.  This means that for those who consider X. vietnamensis and C. nootkatensis to be congeneric, the correct name is Xanthocyparis, with, for example. X. vietnamensis and X. nootkatensis.

  However, I have a suspicion that Ken Kinman's view that the matter was not "finally decided" may indeed be a matter of circumscription.  For those who exclude X. vietnamensis from a genus that includes C. nootkatensis (a defensible position according to at least one recently published cladogram) then Callitropsis nootkatensis remains the correct name for that species, a matter that has some significance for the name of the widely planted interspecific, and under some circumscriptions intergeneric, hybrid, Lawson's cypress.  

  Maybe Ken can explain his view.

  John McNeill

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  John McNeill, Director Emeritus, Royal Ontario Museum;
      Honorary Associate, Royal Botanic Garden, Edinburgh
  Mailing address:  Royal Botanic Garden, Edinburgh, EH3 5LR, Scotland, U.K.
  Telephone:    +44-131-248-2848;  fax: +44-131-248-2901
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  >>> "Paul van Rijckevorsel" <dipteryx at freeler.nl> 02/19/12 8:41 AM >>>
  I don't follow this. In as far as the 2011 Congress was supposed to make a decision on Xanthocyparis, it did do so http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iapt/tax/2011/00000060/00000004/art00026.

  As to the time taken to make a decision, certainly in the case of Xanthocyparis the relevant permanent Committee made up its mind quickly, and came up with a recommendation. It must be admitted that the General Committee then was notably slow in following up, publishing its recommendation only after the 2011 Congress.

  It would be possible, at least theoretically, to set up a voting mechanism that could make decisions between Congresses, but this would be a big change as voting power at a Congress is determined, to a great extent, by who is actually present. To be able to make decisions between Congresses there would have to be a new mechanism to determine who has voting rights.

  Paul

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Kenneth Kinman" <kennethkinman at webtv.net>
  To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:54 AM
  Subject: [Taxacom] Xanthocyparis (was: Validation of taxon names)


  > Dear All,
  > Sometimes circumscription or other related considerations are not
  > the biggest problem. Sometimes, we simply need a speedier resolution of
  > problems by Codes, Congresses (and/or their Committees).
  >
  > The problem of Xanthocyparis was supposed to be finally decided at
  > the 2011 Congress, but for some reason it was not. In the Internet Age,
  > perhaps it should no longer be necessary to delay such decisions like
  > they are emulating the U.S. Congress.
  >
  > That a decision on such matters MUST await a physical
  > get-together Congress seems old-fashioned and unnecessary in the first
  > place (unless delay is your goal). That it was not finally decided in
  > 2011 is difficult to understand. Something is clearly still standing in
  > the way of timely decisions on such matters, and in the Internet Age
  > there surely must be a better and more timely way to address such
  > issues. Such delays were certainly inevitable in the past, but in the
  > 21st Century such delays seem anachronistic and preventable. If the
  > Code still prevents timely resolutions, it needs to be changed so that
  > such decisions can be made quickly (a year or two at most). There is
  > really no excuse for dragging out such decisions longer than that in a
  > time of instant communication via Internet.
  > ------------Ken
  >
  >
  >
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