[Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

John Noyes j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk
Thu Nov 8 04:08:21 CST 2012


Hi Donat,

You said 

"I am not like that and I would like my content delivered in a form that justifies my purchase of a Samsung Note, and that tells me what tree I am looking at, whether it is endangered or not, what leaf miners living in it and what their parasitoids are, and what peculiar ovipositor this cool strange species has; is it unique in the phylogeny of this taxon? What are the synapomorphies and where can I get a DNA sample to reanalyze the phylogenetic I doubt?"

Yes, that is fine, but someone has to do the relevant work to find out that stuff that you want to be made available. At the moment, from where I am sitting, there seems to be a huge imbalance between funding the original work to obtain these data in which you are interested and the amount of money being put into presenting what is currently there via the new technology. If you did a search using your Samsung Note you would have a good chance of finding the tree in which you were interested and its conservation status, but you might find a list of only 10% of the species of leafminers that live on it (if you are lucky), 5% of the parasitoids (if you are even more lucky) and this strange species that has a peculiar ovipositor might be one of hundreds that just have not been described yet, it might also appear to have a unique phylogeny in this particular taxon whereas there are 95 other species that share the same phylogeny, etc. etc. 

It's just been one of those mornings!

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Entomology
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD 
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
 
Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids 

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Donat Agosti
Sent: 08 November 2012 05:03
To: 'Chris Thompson'; 'Paul Kirk'; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

Hi Chris

Tell me, where money is spent on new technology and wasted? I guess, you are right, if you keep up reading hardcopies or pdfs of your favorite journals. Then we do not have to discuss, especially if you sit in a chair in such a wonderful institution like the Smithsonian who can afford all the journals you desire.

I am not like that and I would like my content delivered in a form that justifies my purchase of a Samsung Note, and that tells me what tree I am looking at, whether it is endangered or not, what leaf miners living in it and what their parasitoids are, and what peculiar ovipositor this cool strange species has; is it unique in the phylogeny of this taxon? What are the synapomorphies and where can I get a DNA sample to reanalyze the phylogenetic I doubt?

For me, it is clear that the hardcopy/pdf world does not deliver what I need today and it had its shortcoming anyway. Why don't you have an updated catalogue of all your diptera if this system is what you want? Why are you still typing and verifying records in your diptera catalogue, and why is it not updated automatically whenever something relevant for your interest appears? 

For me it is also clear that there are so many cool tools out there that are helpful to focus more on creating content, digesting the avalange of new data being produced, that I want to make use of them. I find it very exciting and getting closer to what I wanted when I began wondering about the living world.


Donat




-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Thompson [mailto:xelaalex at cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 5:31 PM
To: Donat Agosti; 'Paul Kirk'; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

Wonderful, Donat,

Your answer is perfect although Paul did not really frame his question properly.

This is another example of waste, re-inventing the IT / computer software instead of investing in scientific content.

For more than a half century, since computers first became accessible, IT has continually got large sums for as you wrote " to produce more efficiently, richer and easier accessible open access content ..."

but nothing really has gone into developing that "content " as the underlying assumption is taxonomic content is FREE!

Check out the old article "Why Museum computer projects fail" in Museum News 1981, vol. 59 (4): 40-49. Nothing has changed.

The Public would be better informed if funds were invested in CONTENT, new and enhanced observations of our natural world, so we can make better decisions about what is driving things like climate change, loss of biodiversity and even the one no one speaks of "whether we generating NEW biodiversity."

But instead, a few more dollars / euros will be wasted on "new technology" 
to better deliver the old content.

Oh, well ...

Sincerely,

Chris

from home

-----Original Message-----
From: Donat Agosti
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:28 AM
To: 'Paul Kirk' ; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

Hi Paul

It is not about creating another database, encyclopedia but figuring out what new technological and conceptual  possibilities and ideas are emerging that could be used, that need be tweeked to produce more efficiently, richer and easier accessible open access content hopefully  reaching beyond the traditional users of our publications, aka biodiversity knowledge management system. Hopefully, you will be able to agree to the outcome that the EU funders look forwards to make decisions that suit our community. The best way of course is, if you participate in the workshops and contribute your experience and knowledge. Most of them are open and hopefully attract exactly people like you that are deeply emerged in and highly critical of this work.

Cheers

Donat

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirk [mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 2:43 PM
To: Donat Agosti; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

Thanks Donat,

WOW - one family out of 500 :-)

Less than convinced.

Paul
________________________________________
From: Donat Agosti [agosti at amnh.org]
Sent: 06 November 2012 10:40
To: Paul Kirk; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site  launched

Hi Paul
No, fungi are not ignored. Some Russulaceae taxa will be part of a pilot study conducted as part of the project, as well as  some Bryophyta. Also, there is an effort made to emphasis mycrohizae relation in other pilots.
All the best
Donat


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirk [mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 1:58 PM
To: Donat Agosti; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

Yet again the fungi are ignored in a major EU project ... at a time when the ash tree is being devastated across europe by an emergent fungal pathogen. 
When will botanist realize that plant do not have roots - they have mycorhizae? How can 'Data acquisition and curation' and 'Semantic mark-up' 
be carried out when a major branch on the tree of life is ignored?

Paul M. Kirk
Mycologist
________________________________________
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] on behalf of Donat Agosti [agosti at amnh.org]
Sent: 06 November 2012 08:51
To: TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site  launched

Pro-iBiosphere is a European Union  FP7 funded project to develop an outline of a future European open biodiversity knowledge management system. The Pro-iBiosphere project has been launched on September 1, 2012 for the period of 2 years addressing technical and semantic interoperability issues and challenges that will ultimately lead to a more efficient system of the management of biodiversity information.  For practical reasons and to demonstrate the functionality of the proposed ideas, the test beds are primarily the production of floras and faunas produced at the partner's institutions, how they can be linked to external datasets, and how the new information can be made more widely accessible.

A series of open workshops will be help to discuss specific tasks in the envisioned system.



Consortium partners are the Naturalis Leiden, the Royal Botanical Garden 
Kew, the National Botanic Garden Belgium,  the Botanic Garden and Botanical 
Museum Berlin-Dahlem, Sigma Orionis, Pensoft and Plazi.



More information is available at http://www.pro-ibiosphere.eu/



Donat Agosti

Plazi / Pro-iBiosphere

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