[Taxacom] Systematic Biology textbook -- I feel a challenge coming on here (can I risk a smily face??)

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Thu Nov 8 11:23:10 CST 2012


 "Perhaps in your country the situation is different and you would give
Soltis et al. to a first year student. But don’t judge the rest of the
world by your standards"

I wasn't suggesting that. I was objecting to the implication that molecules
was for the 'mature' student as if morphology was for the 'immature'
student - that molecules were at some higher level of knowledge while
morphology was at a lower level of knowledge.

John Grehan

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:11 AM, Ashley Nicholas <Nicholasa at ukzn.ac.za>wrote:

>  I feel a challenge here (can I risk a smily face??)
>
>
>
> *My comment had nothing to do with the scientific value or morphology
> versus molecules and everything to do with teaching paradigms in a
> developing country.*
>
>
>
> You try giving the Soltis et al. to a first year student who has just come
> into varsity from a rural setting in which there was no electricity to
> learn at night, no proper desks or even test tubes. Students who have had
> the shade of a tree as their school room and who live in a world dominated
> by a scientific language they don't fully understand. These students
> understand morphology they live with it on a daily basis and the organisms
> supplies many of their needs (needs many of us city dwellers don't even
> comprehend). I would say that giving them Soltis et al. at this point would
> be pretty superfluous -- however by third year, now equiped with the
> content and skills needed, I think I would give Solitis et al. to these
> more mature students. Perhaps in your country the situation is different
> and you would give Soltis et al. to a first year student. But don’t judge
> the rest of the world by your standards.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ashley
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:
> taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan
> Sent: 08 November 2012 16:42
> To: taxacom
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Systematic Biology textbook
>
>
>
> "Focused on the molecular -- for the more mature student"
>
>
>
> As if we morphologists are a little less 'mature'.
>
>
>
> John Grehan
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:20 AM, Ashley Nicholas <Nicholasa at ukzn.ac.za
> >wrote:
>
>
>
> >  Hi Alan,
>
> >
>
> > I have used the following books for my Plant Systematic modules:
>
> >
>
> > WOODLAND, D.W. 2009. Contemporary Plat Systematics 4th edn. Andrew
>
> > University Press, Berrien Springs. ISBN 978-1-883925-64-2. [This is a
>
> > nice mix of practical and field botany and molecular systematics
>
> > Introduces students to the broad picture -- good level 2 & 3 textbook]
>
> >
>
> > SIMPSON, M.G. 2010. Plant Systematics. 2nd edn. Elsevier Academic Press:
>
> > Burlington. ISBN 978-0-12-374380-0. [This is a popular text book in
>
> > South Africa for years 2 to honours].
>
> >
>
> > JUDD, W.S., CAMPBELL, C.S., KELLOGG, E.A., STEVENS, P. & DONOGHUE, M.J.
>
> > 2007. Plant Systematics: A Phylogenetic Approach. Sinauer Associates :
>
> > Sunderland. ISBN-13: 9780878934072. [Excellent for Honours and
>
> > Postgrad teaching]
>
> >
>
> > SOLTIS, D.E., SOLTIS, P.E., ENDRESS, P.K. & CHASE, M.C. 2005.
>
> > Phylogeny and Evolution of Angiosperms. Sinauer Associates :
>
> > Sunderland. ISBN 0 87893
>
> > 817 6 [Focused on the molecular -- for the more mature student]
>
> >
>
> > I would be interested to see what other lecturers around the world are
>
> > using.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Ashley
>
> >
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > Ashley Nicholas (PhD)
>
> > Associate Professor & Curator Ward Herbarium School of Life Science,
>
> > Westville Campus University of KwaZulu-Natal, Private Bag X54001,
>
> > Durban, 4000, South Africa
>
> > Tel.:+27-31-260 7719 Fax.: +27-31-260 2029 nicholasa at ukzn.ac.za
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > Empirical scientists do not deal with the truth, we deal with hypotheses.
>
> > At their best these hypotheses are insightful and predictive, however,
>
> > nonetheless experience has shown that they are often only a poor
>
> > approximation of reality and therefor the truth. - Ashley Nicholas
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:
>
> > taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Harvey
>
> > Sent: 07 November 2012 20:31
>
> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> > Subject: [Taxacom] Systematic Biology textbook
>
> >
>
> > Greetings,
>
> >
>
> > After a ten-year hiatus, I'm going to be teaching Systematic Biology
>
> > this spring to a mix of graduate and upper division undergraduate
>
> > students. The class itself is a mix of lecture and lab, and I've been
>
> > looking over a few recently published books as potential texts. Wiley
>
> > and Lieberman (2011) looks like a solid candidate for lecture topics;
>
> > Barry Hall's book seemed promising as a hands-on guide, except for its
>
> > exclusive focus on molecular data (not sure how I missed that).
>
> >
>
> > Anyone have any experiences with these, or others, as course textbooks?
>
> > Any suggestions or recommendations would be most appreciated.
>
> >
>
> > Cheers,
>
> >
>
> > Alan
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Alan Harvey
>
> > Professor of Biology
>
> > Georgia Southern University
>
> > Statesboro, GA 30460-8042
>
> > (912) 478-5784
>
> > fax (912) 478-0845
>
> > http://www.bio.georgiasouthern.edu/bio-home/harvey/index.html
>
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