[Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Nov 8 13:16:42 CST 2012


Actually Quentin, I strongly disagree with just about everything you said! What you say applies more to Wikipedia than to Wikispecies, but, even then, Wikipedia makes the mistake of thinking that every single species of organism on Earth is of some potential interest to a non-taxonomist ... but, in fact, most are not, and will never be ...

Stephen

 
From: Quentin Groom <quentin.groom at br.fgov.be>
To: Paul Kirk <p.kirk at cabi.org> 
Cc: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>; Donat Agosti <agosti at amnh.org>; "TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU" <TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU> 
Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched

The problem is that IF is a tool by taxonomist for taxonomists. It does 
not consider the downstream users of taxonomic information. The wikis, 
with minimal funding, create a flexible system that caters to the users 
of taxonomic information not taxonomists, if IF did that then this would 
be duplication. What IF should do is work with wikispecies to make 
wikispecies as good as it could be.
Regards
Quentin

Paul Kirk wrote:
> What ... like all the fungal names data in Wikipedia/wikispecies/wikithis/wikithat - it was all there in IF before wikis were invented; =duplication; =re-inventing the wheel
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Thorpe [stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
> Sent: 08 November 2012 07:46
> To: Donat Agosti; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
> Cc: 'Chris Thompson'; Paul Kirk
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> =redundancy
>
>
> From: Donat Agosti <agosti at amnh.org>
> To: 'Stephen Thorpe' <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
> Cc: 'Chris Thompson' <xelaalex at cox.net>; 'Paul Kirk' <p.kirk at cabi.org>
> Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 8:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> As I said before, it is not competing for the same resources. It is a NEW resource.
> Donat
>
>
> From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:50 AM
> To: Donat Agosti; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU
> Cc: 'Chris Thompson'; 'Paul Kirk'
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> Nice spin, but I don't buy it ...
>
> Too much money wasted on infrastructure and/or uncritically accepted content, and everybody wanting *their own database* and to do things *their way* ...
>
> A biological analogy that comes to mind is of weeds all competing for the same resources, such as sunlight, and "climbing over each other" to get it  ...
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
>
> From: Donat Agosti <agosti at amnh.org<mailto:agosti at amnh.org>>
> To: TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Cc: 'Stephen Thorpe' <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>; 'Chris Thompson' <xelaalex at cox.net<mailto:xelaalex at cox.net>>; 'Paul Kirk' <p.kirk at cabi.org<mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 6:36 PM
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
>
> Hi Stephen
>
> Don't you have a pretty undifferentiated view of the world? "all trying to do the same".
>
> We have few global projects that deliver, GenBank, GBIF, some that plan to do so (GNA, Zoobank, IPNI); we have one large digitization project (BHL) and a long tail of scanning intiatives, some of it accessible through google or other search engines;  we have a long tail of small projects that deliver content, including ca 2000 plus journals publishing taxonomic content, individual databases from larger scale like Diptera or Hymenoptera Name Server to small taxa projects. But we do not have yet the system that glues all this together.
> The Pensoft approach to create semantically enhanced journals like Zoobank is one step in the right direction, to avoid adding to the above chaos.
>
> If some of the large European institution pick up the ball and want to invest into this brave new world, I think this is great news. If they are  able to find external funding and most not divert internal resources that includes creating content, even the better. And finally, if the funding is not from a program for taxonomic studies, then it is even better, because it also means, that somebody positioned outside our sphere considers what we do well worth funding. But their hope is that we can deliver and create content.
>
> And that means, we have to change our attitude of one man-shows to pool our resources using everybody's strength to make sure we not only disseminate content, but also create new one that adds to a global (biodiversity) knowledge system. Again with Pensoft a partner of the pro-iBiosphere project, and support from the National Library of Medicine we have ingredients that help in implementing this vision. This is the building block to glue things together at the moment the information is published. It builds on other elements, like GNA, a global bibliographic system, that at the end depend in individuals that are willing to share what they have right now and are willing to publish in a way that maintains this system.
>
> I personally consider it a success for our field that we are funded at par with projects covering the European Science Cloud, e-infrastructures for research and education sharing, and find it promising, that we are considered to possess vital information for Europe's future and since this is a global open system, might contribute to a better understanding of global biodiversity.
>
> Donat
>
>
> From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]<mailto:[mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 10:57 PM
> To: Chris Thompson; Donat Agosti; 'Paul Kirk'; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> I have to agree with Chris on this one. We've got more "infrastructure" projects than we can shake a stick at presently, both globally (e.g. GBIF) and locally (e.g. NZOR), all trying to do the same thing, and all come unstuck when faced with the problem of actually obtaining good quality content! Oh, well, I guess the real value of biodiversity is just to keep people employed, anyway ...
>
> Stephen
>
>
> From: Chris Thompson <xelaalex at cox.net<mailto:xelaalex at cox.net>>
> To: Donat Agosti <agosti at amnh.org<mailto:agosti at amnh.org>>; 'Paul Kirk' <p.kirk at cabi.org<mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org>>; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2012 3:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> Wonderful, Donat,
>
> Your answer is perfect although Paul did not really frame his question
> properly.
>
> This is another example of waste, re-inventing the IT / computer software
> instead of investing in scientific content.
>
> For more than a half century, since computers first became accessible, IT
> has continually got large sums for as you wrote
> " to produce more efficiently, richer and easier accessible open access
> content ..."
>
> but nothing really has gone into developing that "content " as the
> underlying assumption is taxonomic content is FREE!
>
> Check out the old article "Why Museum computer projects fail" in Museum News
> 1981, vol. 59 (4): 40-49. Nothing has changed.
>
> The Public would be better informed if funds were invested in CONTENT, new
> and enhanced observations of our natural world, so we can make better
> decisions about what is driving things like climate change, loss of
> biodiversity and even the one no one speaks of "whether we generating NEW
> biodiversity."
>
> But instead, a few more dollars / euros will be wasted on "new technology"
> to better deliver the old content.
>
> Oh, well ...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
> from home
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donat Agosti
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:28 AM
> To: 'Paul Kirk' ; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> Hi Paul
>
> It is not about creating another database, encyclopedia but figuring out
> what new technological and conceptual  possibilities and ideas are emerging
> that could be used, that need be tweeked to produce more efficiently, richer
> and easier accessible open access content hopefully  reaching beyond the
> traditional users of our publications, aka biodiversity knowledge management
> system. Hopefully, you will be able to agree to the outcome that the EU
> funders look forwards to make decisions that suit our community. The best
> way of course is, if you participate in the workshops and contribute your
> experience and knowledge. Most of them are open and hopefully attract
> exactly people like you that are deeply emerged in and highly critical of
> this work.
>
> Cheers
>
> Donat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Kirk [mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org<mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org>]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 2:43 PM
> To: Donat Agosti; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> Thanks Donat,
>
> WOW - one family out of 500 :-)
>
> Less than convinced.
>
> Paul
> ________________________________________
> From: Donat Agosti [agosti at amnh.org<mailto:agosti at amnh.org>]
> Sent: 06 November 2012 10:40
> To: Paul Kirk; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site  launched
>
> Hi Paul
> No, fungi are not ignored. Some Russulaceae taxa will be part of a pilot
> study conducted as part of the project, as well as  some Bryophyta. Also,
> there is an effort made to emphasis mycrohizae relation in other pilots.
> All the best
> Donat
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Kirk [mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org<mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org>]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 1:58 PM
> To: Donat Agosti; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site launched
>
> Yet again the fungi are ignored in a major EU project ... at a time when the
> ash tree is being devastated across europe by an emergent fungal pathogen.
> When will botanist realize that plant do not have roots - they have
> mycorhizae? How can 'Data acquisition and curation' and 'Semantic mark-up'
> be carried out when a major branch on the tree of life is ignored?
>
> Paul M. Kirk
> Mycologist
> ________________________________________
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>] on behalf of Donat Agosti
> [agosti at amnh.org<mailto:agosti at amnh.org>]
> Sent: 06 November 2012 08:51
> To: TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU<mailto:TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
> Subject: [Taxacom] pro-iBioshphere project Web Site  launched
>
> Pro-iBiosphere is a European Union  FP7 funded project to develop an outline
> of a future European open biodiversity knowledge management system. The
> Pro-iBiosphere project has been launched on September 1, 2012 for the period
> of 2 years addressing technical and semantic interoperability issues and
> challenges that will ultimately lead to a more efficient system of the
> management of biodiversity information.  For practical reasons and to
> demonstrate the functionality of the proposed ideas, the test beds are
> primarily the production of floras and faunas produced at the partner's
> institutions, how they can be linked to external datasets, and how the new
> information can be made more widely accessible.
>
> A series of open workshops will be help to discuss specific tasks in the
> envisioned system.
>
>
>
> Consortium partners are the Naturalis Leiden, the Royal Botanical Garden
> Kew, the National Botanic Garden Belgium,  the Botanic Garden and Botanical
> Museum Berlin-Dahlem, Sigma Orionis, Pensoft and Plazi.
>
>
>
> More information is available at http://www.pro-ibiosphere.eu/
>
>
>
> Donat Agosti
>
> Plazi / Pro-iBiosphere
>
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-- 
Dr. Quentin Groom
(Botany and Information Technology)

National Botanic Garden of Belgium
Domein van Bouchout
B-1860 Meise
Belgium

Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364
FAX:      +32 (0) 226 009 45

E-mail:    quentin.groom at br.fgov.be
Skype name: qgroom
Website:    www.botanicgarden.be


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