[Taxacom] Morphological molecular reconciliation again (was erecting or sinking higher taxa
calabar.john at gmail.com
Sun Oct 14 13:05:08 CDT 2012
I'm not sure if my message below was sent so I am sending again.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Morphological molecular reconciliation again (was erecting or
sinking higher taxa
To: Richard Zander <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Richard's conclusion is only possible by saying that the morpogenetic
evidence is wrong (i.e. throwing it out). And I did mention in my response
an explanation for the molecular evidence being wrong in this case - that
the molecular evidence result has been negatively affected by the presence
of unrecognized plesiomorphies (due to the phenetic nature of character
state determination and analysis).
With respect to an alternative explanation there appears to be none that
does not require invalidation of one or other sources of evidence.
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Richard Zander
<Richard.Zander at mobot.org>wrote:
> Yes, that's it! Orangutans may be the progenitors of all chimps,
> gorillas, humans, bonabos and extinct human-like shamblers in the African
> forests. Is there another explanation of the molecular pattern given the
> morphological data you vouch for? The sister group of homo is an orangutan
> clade that is now extinct but makes orangutan a paraphyletic group.
> Another explanation that does not just throw out conflicting information?
> What is it?
> Richard H. Zander
> Missouri Botanical Garden
> PO Box 299
> St. Louis, MO 63166 U.S.A.
> richard.zander at mobot.org
> *From:* John Grehan [mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sun 10/14/2012 10:12 AM
> *To:* Richard Zander
> *Cc:* taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> *Subject:* Morphological molecular reconciliation again (was erecting or
> sinking higher taxa
>> Suppose that there is an orangutan sister group to humans that is now
> If this extinct sister group is closer to humans than orangutans, and
> therefore an extinct sister group to humans, it is not an orangutan
> sistergroup since that entity would encompass all living and extinct taxa
> comprising the human clade, and those comprising an orangutan clade.
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