[Taxacom] Morphological molecular reconciliation again (was erecting or sinking higher taxa

Richard Zander Richard.Zander at mobot.org
Sun Oct 14 13:38:22 CDT 2012


Why'd I start this again? What's the matter with me?
 
_______________________
Richard H. Zander
Missouri Botanical Garden
PO Box 299
St. Louis, MO 63166 U.S.A.
richard.zander at mobot.org
 

________________________________

From: John Grehan [mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com]
Sent: Sun 10/14/2012 11:25 AM
To: Richard Zander
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: Morphological molecular reconciliation again (was erecting or sinking higher taxa


Richard's conclusion is only possible by saying that the morpogenetic evidence is wrong (i.e. throwing it out). And I did mention in my response an explanation for the molecular evidence being wrong in this case - that the molecular evidence result has been negatively affected by the presence of unrecognized plesiomorphies (due to the phenetic nature of character state determination and analysis). 

John Grehan


On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Richard Zander <Richard.Zander at mobot.org> wrote:


	Yes, that's it! Orangutans may be the progenitors of all chimps, gorillas, humans, bonabos and extinct human-like shamblers in the African forests. Is there another explanation of the molecular pattern given the morphological data you vouch for? The sister group of homo is an orangutan clade that is now extinct but makes orangutan a paraphyletic group. 
	 
	Another explanation that does not just throw out conflicting information? What is it?
	 
	_______________________
	Richard H. Zander
	Missouri Botanical Garden
	PO Box 299
	St. Louis, MO 63166 U.S.A.
	richard.zander at mobot.org
	 

________________________________

	From: John Grehan [mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com]
	Sent: Sun 10/14/2012 10:12 AM
	To: Richard Zander
	Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
	Subject: Morphological molecular reconciliation again (was erecting or sinking higher taxa
	
	 

		Suppose that there is an orangutan sister group to humans that is now extinct. 


	If this extinct sister group is closer to humans than orangutans, and therefore an extinct sister group to humans, it is not an orangutan sistergroup since that entity would encompass all living and extinct taxa comprising the human clade, and those comprising an orangutan clade.
	 





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