[Taxacom] Open access?

Roderic Page r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
Wed Jun 5 07:45:12 CDT 2013


Paul,

If you pay to publish under a (proper) open access license, then you place no controls over the fate of the publication, people can do anything they want with it (typically you place a caveat that they credit you if they make use of it). Open Access facilitates this because the commercial value of the business in the first instance is getting people to publish. There's no money in distribution.

If you charge for access to the publication once published, then you are very keen to control distribution by any means you can. Once you loose that control you make no more money.

So, yes, there's a pretty clear connection. It's no accident that journals like the PLoS, BMC, and ZooKeys make all the content freely available for people to explore, and other publishers don't.

Regards

Rod

On 5 Jun 2013, at 13:32, Paul Kirk wrote:

> post publication data mining is quite separate from pre publication choice of publishing model ... or am I missing some critical link?
> 
> still bemused at Kew :-)
> 
> Paul
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Quentin Groom
> Sent: 05 June 2013 13:27
> To: Roderic Page
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?
> 
> Yes, but this is why data miners are trying to get an exception for their use. While the rest of us need to find a sustainable way to fund publishing.
> I have frequently published as an amateur botanist, rather than in my academic role. However, up until this year I could not afford to publish in Open Access journals, even though I much prefer this.
> Quentin
> 
> Roderic Page wrote:
>> Open Access is not simply about not having to pay to read. It's about 
>> "free" in the sense of being able to repurpose the text, for example, 
>> mining the text.
>> 
>> It's one thing to say "OK, I can rent access to a paper for a short 
>> period and read it" (an option for some papers in BioNames, e.g. 
>> http://bionames.org/references/e5249df9741347eccfba182c64936ab2
>> ), it's quite another to be able to download that text and extract its 
>> content. I would argue mining is ultimately far more valuable, and is 
>> one of the more compelling arguments for Open Access. It's also 
>> something that publishers are reluctant to allow, see piece in Nature 
>> yesterday "Tensions grow as data-mining discussions fall apart"
>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/498014a.
>> 
>> There's a lot more at stake here than an individual's ability to read 
>> a paper.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Rod
>> 
>> On 5 Jun 2013, at 12:39, Quentin Groom wrote:
>> 
>>> As a consumer of scientific papers I've never had a problem with the 
>>> principal of paying to read. I do this all the time with books. 
>>> However, I resent having to pay as much as $40 for 24 hours viewing 
>>> of a paper published 80 years ago. With publishers such as PeerJ 
>>> pushing the boundaries of what publishing costs. The other publishers 
>>> need to step-up and cut their costs. The costs of scanning are so low 
>>> that they could still make profit on their back catalogues if they 
>>> cut the cost to cents. People cheat the system now because they feel that it is unfair.
>>> However, someone does need to pay!
>>> I would also like to see the paid download statistics published.
>>> Wouldn't the impact of a publication be much butter judged by the 
>>> willingness of people to pay for it, rather than if it gets cited.
>>> Quentin
>>> 
>>> Donat Agosti wrote:
>>>> Right, but this is also not a business model, or one whereby nobody 
>>>> pays.
>>>> Donat
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Philipp Wagner [mailto:philipp.wagner.zfmk at uni-bonn.de]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 2:49 PM
>>>> To: Donat Agosti
>>>> Cc: 'Wuster,Wolfgang'; 'John Noyes'; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
>>>> <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?
>>>> 
>>>> Well, also people from poorer countries have an email account and 
>>>> can easily request tha artcile directly from the authors.
>>>> That would be the cheapest way for both sides.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Donat Agosti schrieb:
>>>> 
>>>>> ". I would be concerned that making open access mandatory would 
>>>>> discriminate against taxonomists from poorer countries"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Essentially this means: Better keep the old system, where the 
>>>>> people from poorer countries have very restricted access to the 
>>>>> published record, because their libraries cannot afford it, and 
>>>>> because there is not even in the richer countries a library that 
>>>>> has it all. Do you really mean and support this?
>>>>> Essentially, that means to keep the colleagues in the poorer 
>>>>> country longer in the dark as necessary.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Donat
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>>> <mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>>>>> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Wuster,Wolfgang
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 2:25 PM
>>>>> To: John Noyes; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
>>>>> <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Having all taxonomic publication available as open access 
>>>>> publications would be nice, but at least at the moment, someone, 
>>>>> somewhere still ends up paying, at least if they wish to publish 
>>>>> through independent academic journals. In the traditional system 
>>>>> readers pay, under the open access model the author pays. I would 
>>>>> be concerned that making open access mandatory would discriminate 
>>>>> against taxonomists from poorer countries as well as many private 
>>>>> individuals (and indeed retired academics) who pay for their 
>>>>> taxonomic research out of their own pockets. No doubt this may 
>>>>> change in the next few years with the advent of new publishing 
>>>>> models, but I don't think we are quite there yet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> However, encouraging open access for those who can afford it would 
>>>>> certainly make a nice Recommendation  8i in the Code.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wolfgang
>>>>> 
>>>>> John Noyes wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I certainly think it would be good to specify that an electronic 
>>>>>> publication would meet the requirements of the ICZN as a published 
>>>>>> article ONLY if it was open access. It is a pity that this was not 
>>>>>> done when Article 8.5 was introduced - it is almost certainly too 
>>>>>> late now. As I see it, it was a fantastic opportunity was missed 
>>>>>> that would have made taxonomy hugely more accessible at a stroke.
>>>>>> It would also have made it cheaper because the cost of publishing 
>>>>>> taxonomy (especially large-scale revisionary works of the sort 
>>>>>> that are badly needed) could have been reduced to virtually nill.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Roderic Page
>> Professor of Taxonomy
>> Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine 
>> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences Graham Kerr Building 
>> University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>> 
>> Email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk <mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk>
>> Tel: +44 141 330 4778
>> Fax: +44 141 330 2792
>> Skype: rdmpage
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
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>> Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
>> Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
>> Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderic_D._M._Page
>> Citations: 
>> http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
>> <http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ>
>> ORCID id: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
>> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:
> 
> (1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org
> 
> (2) a Google search specified as:  site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here
> 
> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
> 

---------------------------------------------------------
Roderic Page
Professor of Taxonomy
Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
Graham Kerr Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK

Email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk
Tel: +44 141 330 4778
Fax: +44 141 330 2792
Skype: rdmpage
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderic_D._M._Page
Citations: http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
ORCID id: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767




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