[Taxacom] Open access?

Paul Kirk P.Kirk at kew.org
Wed Jun 5 07:59:34 CDT 2013


Thanks Rod,

And yes, I can understand that some publishes would be concerned about what I suggested but my point, I guess, was not that one person does everything but that lots of people do a little bit ... that 'c' word again :)

If we all did a little, and the parsed content was approriately disseminated ... a bit like what we do 'manually' now by selective harvesting (sound familiar) ... where would we 'come unstuck'?

It would sure speed up progress if it all happened overnight ...  the same speedup that bit-torrent is over ftp.

Paul

From: Roderic Page [mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk]
Sent: 05 June 2013 13:40
To: Paul Kirk
Cc: Quentin Groom; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?

Paul,

Nobody cares what you do with a few PDFs on your computer, do whatever you want (assuming the publisher hasn't locked the PDF, which happens sometimes).

Publishers start to care when:

a) You do an Aaron Swartz and download a lot of articles to mine them. Things ended rather badly for him (yes, it's a complicated story, but a sobering one, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz )

b) Make the output of that mining available to others. If you have managed to extract the core information in those papers, then publishers wonder why would anybody bother reading the papers anymore. That, of course, is precisely the point.

Regards

Rod

On 5 Jun 2013, at 13:30, Paul Kirk wrote:


Interesting article but why should publishers be part of the problem ... or part of the solution? Is the current law so 'stone age' that I can get a few PDFs from an author, read them and use my brain to process the content, but I cannot use my PC to 'read' them and process the content. If the former is 'copyright OK' where does it say that the latter is 'copyright not OK'?

Bemused at Kew :-)

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Roderic Page
Sent: 05 June 2013 13:14
To: Quentin Groom
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?

Open Access is not simply about not having to pay to read. It's about "free" in the sense of being able to repurpose the text, for example, mining the text.

It's one thing to say "OK, I can rent access to a paper for a short period and read it" (an option for some papers in BioNames, e.g. http://bionames.org/references/e5249df9741347eccfba182c64936ab2 ), it's quite another to be able to download that text and extract its content. I would argue mining is ultimately far more valuable, and is one of the more compelling arguments for Open Access. It's also something that publishers are reluctant to allow, see piece in Nature yesterday "Tensions grow as data-mining discussions fall apart" http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/498014a.

There's a lot more at stake here than an individual's ability to read a paper.

Regards

Rod

On 5 Jun 2013, at 12:39, Quentin Groom wrote:


As a consumer of scientific papers I've never had a problem with the
principal of paying to read. I do this all the time with books.
However, I resent having to pay as much as $40 for 24 hours viewing of
a paper published 80 years ago. With publishers such as PeerJ pushing
the boundaries of what publishing costs. The other publishers need to
step-up and cut their costs. The costs of scanning are so low that
they could still make profit on their back catalogues if they cut the
cost to cents. People cheat the system now because they feel that it is unfair.
However, someone does need to pay!
I would also like to see the paid download statistics published.
Wouldn't the impact of a publication be much butter judged by the
willingness of people to pay for it, rather than if it gets cited.
Quentin

Donat Agosti wrote:
Right, but this is also not a business model, or one whereby nobody pays.
Donat


-----Original Message-----
From: Philipp Wagner [mailto:philipp.wagner.zfmk at uni-bonn.de]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 2:49 PM
To: Donat Agosti
Cc: 'Wuster,Wolfgang'; 'John Noyes'; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?

Well, also people from poorer countries have an email account and can easily request tha artcile directly from the authors.
That would be the cheapest way for both sides.






Donat Agosti schrieb:

". I would be concerned that making open access mandatory would discriminate against taxonomists from poorer countries"

Essentially this means: Better keep the old system, where the people from poorer countries have very restricted access to the published record, because their libraries cannot afford it, and because there is not even in the richer countries a library that has it all. Do you really mean and support this?
Essentially, that means to keep the colleagues in the poorer country longer in the dark as necessary.

Donat




-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
Wuster,Wolfgang
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 2:25 PM
To: John Noyes; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Open access?

Having all taxonomic publication available as open access publications would be nice, but at least at the moment, someone, somewhere still ends up paying, at least if they wish to publish through independent academic journals. In the traditional system readers pay, under the open access model the author pays. I would be concerned that making open access mandatory would discriminate against taxonomists from poorer countries as well as many private individuals (and indeed retired academics) who pay for their taxonomic research out of their own pockets. No doubt this may change in the next few years with the advent of new publishing models, but I don't think we are quite there yet.

However, encouraging open access for those who can afford it would certainly make a nice Recommendation  8i in the Code.

Wolfgang

John Noyes wrote:


Hi,

I certainly think it would be good to specify that an electronic publication would meet the requirements of the ICZN as a published article ONLY if it was open access. It is a pity that this was not done when Article 8.5 was introduced - it is almost certainly too late now. As I see it, it was a fantastic opportunity was missed that would have made taxonomy hugely more accessible at a stroke. It would also have made it cheaper because the cost of publishing taxonomy (especially large-scale revisionary works of the sort that are badly needed) could have been reduced to virtually nill.



--
Dr. Wolfgang Wüster  -  Senior Lecturer
School of Biological Sciences
Bangor University
Environment Centre Wales
Bangor LL57  2UW
Wales, UK

Tel: +44 1248 382301
Fax: +44 1248 382569
E-mail: w.wuster at bangor.ac.uk<mailto:w.wuster at bangor.ac.uk>
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/


--
Rhif Elusen Gofrestredig / Registered Charity No. 1141565

Gall y neges e-bost hon, ac unrhyw atodiadau a anfonwyd gyda hi,
gynnwys deunydd cyfrinachol ac wedi eu bwriadu i'w defnyddio'n unig
gan y sawl y cawsant eu cyfeirio ato (atynt). Os ydych wedi derbyn y
neges e-bost hon trwy gamgymeriad, rhowch wybod i'r anfonwr ar
unwaith a dilëwch y neges. Os na fwriadwyd anfon y neges atoch chi,
rhaid i chi beidio â defnyddio, cadw neu ddatgelu unrhyw wybodaeth a
gynhwysir ynddi. Mae unrhyw farn neu safbwynt yn eiddo i'r sawl a'i
hanfonodd yn unig  ac nid yw o anghenraid yn cynrychioli barn
Prifysgol Bangor. Nid yw Prifysgol Bangor yn gwarantu bod y neges
e-bost hon neu unrhyw atodiadau yn rhydd rhag firysau neu 100% yn
ddiogel. Oni bai fod hyn wedi ei ddatgan yn uniongyrchol yn nhestun
yr e-bost, nid bwriad y neges e-bost hon yw ffurfio contract rhwymol
- mae rhestr o lofnodwyr awdurdodedig ar gael o Swyddfa Cyllid
Prifysgol Bangor.  www.bangor.ac.uk<http://www.bangor.ac.uk>

This email and any attachments may contain confidential material and is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s).  If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email.  If you are not the intended recipient(s), you must not use, retain or disclose any information contained in this email.  Any views or opinions are solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Bangor University.
Bangor University does not guarantee that this email or any
attachments are free from viruses or 100% secure.  Unless expressly
stated in the body of the text of the email, this email is not
intended to form a binding contract - a list of authorised
signatories is available from the Bangor University Finance Office.
www.bangor.ac.uk<http://www.bangor.ac.uk>

_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:
site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here

Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.


_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:
site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here

Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.






_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:
site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here

Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.

_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:
site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here

Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.

---------------------------------------------------------
Roderic Page
Professor of Taxonomy
Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences Graham Kerr Building University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK

Email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk<mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk>
Tel: +44 141 330 4778
Fax: +44 141 330 2792
Skype: rdmpage
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderic_D._M._Page
Citations: http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
ORCID id: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767

_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:  site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here

Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.

---------------------------------------------------------
Roderic Page
Professor of Taxonomy
Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
Graham Kerr Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK

Email: r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk<mailto:r.page at bio.gla.ac.uk>
Tel: +44 141 330 4778
Fax: +44 141 330 2792
Skype: rdmpage
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderic_D._M._Page
Citations: http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
ORCID id: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767




More information about the Taxacom mailing list