[Taxacom] [iczn-list] Before they were thieves, when code compliance was mandatory....

Scott Thomson scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 16 01:20:28 CDT 2014

Hi Ray,

wow you dug those old quotes up...

well I still stand by that. Refute or Accept.

Publish a refutation as to the availability or validity of a name or accept
it. I have no issue with that. Its what I have always done. To determine
that I would not use some of the W&W names we refuted them first, in
Iverson et al.2000. If its not refuted its used. The genera were either
used or sunk, they are in synonymy not unavailable. The only species names
we did not recognise did not meet the code. So I refuted them. I have not
had to do this with any of your names.

If you dont agree with the published refutation well demonstrate why,
refute their argument in a publication and science moves on.

This does not affect my arguments on all this at all.

Cheers, Scott

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:33 AM, Raymond Hoser - The Snakeman <
viper007 at live.com.au> wrote:

> Dear all, we’ve seen the posts here from the esteemed Wulf Schleip and
> Scott Thomson in recent days telling people that their own coined names
> should take priority over those of myself, Wells, Gray and others even
> though we did the relevant research and publications up to 14 years earlier
> (or in the case of Gary over 100 years earlier).
> I note the Schleip only decided to become a thief in the recent past,
> signing on to the Wuster/Kaiser “veto’ program in 2012.  Thomson also
> signed on at the start in 2012 and he was stealing the work of Wells as far
> back as 2009.
> But what were the views of these two esteemed men in 2003 at a time when
> they didn’t have delusions of grandeur and seek self gratification by
> asserting “name” rights over the work of others before setting themselves
> up to declare war on the 200 year old code?
> As it happens, some of what they said in 2003 made sense and having just
> taken a look at their posts on kingsnake.com forums (when Wuster was
> still alleging my papers described non-taxa, instead of expressing a desire
> to rename them all), they did make sense.
> Here’s some quotes:
> *http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=279134,292763
> <http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=279134,292763>*
> *Scott Thomson said: *
> *“*Ignoring names that meet the requirements of the ICZN is not an
> option. This cannot be done under strict application of the rules as the
> names if valid are Available and must be used. The alternative is to refute
> them. So disagree with the names all you like, "Refute or Accept". That is
> publish a valid refutation of the taxon to which the name applies.”
> And
> *“*I consider the ignorance of valid names by so called "professionals"
> to be as big a crime in taxonomy as those who published the names in the
> first place. As I said "refute it or accept it" if anyone has that much of
> an opinion then they can publish a refutation. If not use the name. It is
> refusal by some, for whatever reason, and use by others that causes so much
> confusion.”
>  (Thanks Scott for that direct rebuttal of Kaiser et al.)
>  And
> “Nomenclature is pretty black and white. There are a set of rules. Apply
> them, if the name is valid, use it, if not reject it. If you don't like
> it.... well I don't recall that being in the rules.
> Cheers, Scott
> Carettochelys.com <http://www.carettochelys.com/>”
> (I couldn’t agree more Scott!)
>  And for Wulf Schleip:
> http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=279134,283007
> *“*If the paper (even hardly) meets the recommendations of the code of
> the ICZN the paper must be seen as "published" and therefore the names are
> available. Though it is still questionable if these taxa are biological
> valid entities or not.
> You can put them to synonymy, you can revist the taxa and come up with
> other conclusions, but you can not just ignore them.”
> (Well put Wulf, I couldn’t have done better myself!)
> Snakebustersâ <http://www.snakebusters.com.au> - Australia's best reptiles
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Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré, 481
04263-000, São Paulo, SP
ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
Skype: Faendalimas
Mobile Phone: +55 11 996 48 5668

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