[Taxacom] A good year indeed!

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Nov 13 15:53:18 CST 2014


So the overly positive spin Mike is trying to impose on the situation is unbalanced, right?
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 14/11/14, Richard Jensen <rjensen at saintmarys.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] A good year indeed!
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 Cc: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "mivie at montana.edu" <mivie at montana.edu>
 Received: Friday, 14 November, 2014, 9:35 AM
 
 As
 long as we don't forget about genetic drift, then there
 is a kernel of truth to what Mike says.  And,
 unfortunately, there are often instances in which those who
 survive (get hired, "earn" tenure), do so by
 virtue of politics and personalities.  I have seen several
 such cases and colleagues have told me about others. 
 It's the nature of the beast, and all any of us can do
 is try our best to ensure that those selected and retained
 have succeeded by virtue of the quality of their
 work.
 Cheers,
 Dick J
 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at
 4:01 PM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 wrote:
 Who has
 the right to decide what is or isn't "good
 enough" or "best enough"? If those who end up
 with the jobs are by definition the "best enough",
 then it is meaningless circularity ...
 
 
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Fri, 14/11/14, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] A good year indeed!
 
  To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
  Received: Friday, 14 November, 2014, 8:32 AM
 
 
 
  Jason,
 
 
 
  On further reflection, I may
 
  see where you misunderstood.  Social
 
  Darwinism is the idea of the survival of the
 
  fittest.  It is absolute,
 
  and the social
 
  losers lose because of a fault of their own.
 
 
 
  This has nothing to do with my
 
  comments. It is more the "survival of the
 
  fit enough."  Do not look at it from the
 
  individual side, where the
 
  underemployed in
 
  our science cannot be said to be deficient, but from
 
  the health of the science, where those who
 
  "win" a job are as an
 
  aggregate,
 
  a highly selected pool of excellence.  This makes
 things
 
  grim
 
  for any individual, as the
 
  "best" might never get a job, but the
 "best
 
 
 
  enough" does.  However, I am talking
 
  about the future of insect
 
  systematics, and
 
  it is looking solid.  Many jobs this year, and a large
 
  pool of excellence.
 
 
 
  Mike
 
 
 
  On
 
  11/13/2014 1:00 PM, JF Mate wrote:
 
  >>
 
  As in all human enterprises, the laws of Malthus apply
 to
 
  our science.Our "reproductive capacity" is
 far
 
  higher than the carrying capacity of our institutions.
 There
 
  will always be a larger supply of propagules than can
 
  survive (i.e. be provided academic jobs), and selection
 will
 
  take the best and discard the others, often a majority.
 Some
 
  cohorts will have very strong selection, so that a tiny
 
  percentage make it through, and at other times
 selection
 
  will be relaxed, and a larger percentage will make it.
 Of
 
  course, this means that sometimes very excellent
 propagules
 
  will be discarded in lean times, and less excellent
 ones
 
  will make it through in fat times. However, the
 academic
 
  reproductive rate will always provide a diverse pool
 with
 
  different attributes and abilities, so that the overall
 
  resulting set will be maximally beneficial to the
 future.
 
  > Mike, you are flogging a dead horse with a
 
  new stick. Do you think it
 
  > wise to
 
  appeal to social darwinism to support your own personal
 
  > opinion?
 
  >
 
  > Best
 
  >
 
  > Jason
 
  >
 
  _______________________________________________
 
  > Taxacom Mailing List
 
  >
 
  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
  > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
  > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 
  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
  >
 
  > Celebrating 27 years
 
  of Taxacom in 2014.
 
 
 
  --
 
  __________________________________________________
 
 
 
  Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 
  F.R.E.S.
 
 
 
  Montana Entomology
 
  Collection
 
  Marsh Labs, Room 50
 
  1911 West Lincoln Street
 
  NW
 
  corner of Lincoln and S.19th
 
  Montana State
 
  University
 
  Bozeman, MT 59717
 
  USA
 
 
 
  (406)
 
  994-4610 (voice)
 
  (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 
  mivie at montana.edu
 
 
 
  _______________________________________________
 
  Taxacom Mailing List
 
  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 
  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
  Celebrating 27 years of
 
  Taxacom in 2014.
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 Taxacom Mailing List
 
 Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
 The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
 Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Richard Jensen, Professor
 Department of Biology
 Saint Mary's College
 Notre Dame, IN 46556
 
 



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