[Taxacom] A good year indeed!

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Nov 13 16:29:12 CST 2014


Or the even dirtier secret that an employee can be both an idiot and an ass if they somehow manage to bring in lots of external funding
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 14/11/14, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] A good year indeed!
 To: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Friday, 14 November, 2014, 10:01 AM
 
 Dick,
 
 No one wants to admit the dirty little secret,
 but we should never 
 really forget that
 among the skills needed to be excellent are those of 
 personality and ability to politic that allow
 one to succeed.  A 
 brilliant scientist
 that cannot be tolerated personally will not be good 
 for our science.  They are not
 "excellent." Some that are so adept as to 
 be virtual charlatans can sometime garner
 resources that support others 
 who are
 not.  It is a total pool issue. As we train students, these
 
 characteristics must be nurtured as well as
 others.
 
 Mike
 
 On 11/13/2014 2:35 PM, Richard
 Jensen wrote:
 > As long as we don't
 forget about genetic drift, then there is a kernel 
 > of truth to what Mike says.  And,
 unfortunately, there are often 
 >
 instances in which those who survive (get hired,
 "earn" tenure), do so 
 > by
 virtue of politics and personalities.  I have seen several
 such 
 > cases and colleagues have told me
 about others.  It's the nature of 
 >
 the beast, and all any of us can do is try our best to
 ensure that 
 > those selected and
 retained have succeeded by virtue of the quality of 
 > their work.
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > Dick J
 >
 > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Stephen
 Thorpe 
 > <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
 <mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>
 wrote:
 >
 > 
    Who has the right to decide what is or
 isn't "good enough" or
 > 
    "best enough"? If those who end up
 with the jobs are by definition
 > 
    the "best enough", then it is
 meaningless circularity ...
 >
 >
 > 
    --------------------------------------------
 >     On Fri, 14/11/14, Michael
 A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu
 >     <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>>
 wrote:
 >
 >     
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] A good year indeed!
 >      To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >      Received: Friday, 14 November,
 2014, 8:32 AM
 >
 >   
   Jason,
 >
 >     
 On further reflection, I may
 >     
 see where you misunderstood.  Social
 > 
     Darwinism is the idea of the survival of the
 >      fittest.  It is absolute,
 >      and the social
 >      losers lose because of a fault of
 their own.
 >
 >     
 This has nothing to do with my
 >     
 comments. It is more the "survival of the
 >      fit enough."  Do not look at
 it from the
 >      individual side,
 where the
 >      underemployed in
 >      our science cannot be said to be
 deficient, but from
 >      the health
 of the science, where those who
 >     
 "win" a job are as an
 >     
 aggregate,
 >      a highly selected
 pool of excellence.  This makes things
 >      grim
 >     
 for any individual, as the
 >     
 "best" might never get a job, but the
 "best
 >
 >     
 enough" does.  However, I am talking
 >      about the future of insect
 >      systematics, and
 >      it is looking solid.  Many jobs
 this year, and a large
 >      pool of
 excellence.
 >
 >   
   Mike
 >
 >     
 On
 >      11/13/2014 1:00 PM, JF Mate
 wrote:
 >      >>
 >      As in all human enterprises, the
 laws of Malthus apply to
 >      our
 science.Our "reproductive capacity" is far
 >      higher than the carrying capacity
 of our institutions. There
 >      will
 always be a larger supply of propagules than can
 >      survive (i.e. be provided academic
 jobs), and selection will
 >      take
 the best and discard the others, often a majority. Some
 >      cohorts will have very strong
 selection, so that a tiny
 >     
 percentage make it through, and at other times selection
 >      will be relaxed, and a larger
 percentage will make it. Of
 >     
 course, this means that sometimes very excellent
 propagules
 >      will be discarded in
 lean times, and less excellent ones
 > 
     will make it through in fat times. However, the
 academic
 >      reproductive rate will
 always provide a diverse pool with
 >   
   different attributes and abilities, so that the
 overall
 >      resulting set will be
 maximally beneficial to the future.
 > 
     > Mike, you are flogging a dead horse with a
 >      new stick. Do you think it
 >      > wise to
 >      appeal to social darwinism to
 support your own personal
 >      >
 opinion?
 >      >
 >      > Best
 > 
     >
 >      > Jason
 >      >
 >     
 _______________________________________________
 >      > Taxacom Mailing List
 >      >
 > 
    Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >      > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >      > The Taxacom Archive back to
 1992 may be
 >      searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >      >
 >     
 > Celebrating 27 years
 >      of
 Taxacom in 2014.
 >
 > 
     --
 >     
 __________________________________________________
 >
 >      Michael A.
 Ivie, Ph.D.,
 >      F.R.E.S.
 >
 >      Montana
 Entomology
 >      Collection
 >      Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >      1911 West Lincoln Street
 >      NW
 >     
 corner of Lincoln and S.19th
 >     
 Montana State
 >      University
 >      Bozeman, MT 59717
 >      USA
 >
 >      (406)
 >     
 994-4610 (voice)
 >      (406) 994-6029
 (FAX)
 >     mivie at montana.edu
 <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
 >
 >     
 _______________________________________________
 >      Taxacom Mailing List
 >     Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >     http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >      The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
 may be
 >      searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >
 >      Celebrating
 27 years of
 >      Taxacom in 2014.
 >
 > 
    _______________________________________________
 >     Taxacom Mailing List
 >     Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >     http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >     The Taxacom Archive back
 to 1992 may be searched at:
 > 
    http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >
 > 
    Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 -- 
 > Richard Jensen, Professor
 > Department of Biology
 >
 Saint Mary's College
 > Notre Dame, IN
 46556
 
 -- 
 __________________________________________________
 
 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 F.R.E.S.
 
 Montana Entomology
 Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 NW
 corner of Lincoln and S.19th
 Montana State
 University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA
 
 (406)
 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu
 
 _______________________________________________
 Taxacom Mailing List
 Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 Celebrating 27 years of
 Taxacom in 2014.
 



More information about the Taxacom mailing list