[Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?

John Noyes j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk
Wed Apr 15 03:46:26 CDT 2015


Hi Rich,

I think you have it there. Two lines – beautiful!

The trouble is we shall still be arguing about what is published between 2012 and the 5th edition.

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229

Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>

From: Richard Pyle [mailto:pylediver at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pyle
Sent: 14 April 2015 21:55
To: John Noyes; 'Lyubomir Penev'
Cc: 'Stephen Thorpe'; 'Neal Evenhuis'; 'Frank T. Krell'; 'Sue Gardner'; 'Taxa com'; gread at actrix.gen.nz
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?

My vision for the 5th Edition is to produce it in two parts:

Part 1: Rules for names established after 20XX.

Part 2 Rules for names established prior to [20XX+1]

Part 2 would be the 4th Edition with all the necessary band aids, plus perhaps some re-organization to make it easier to find all the right rules. It necessarily has to accommodate the complex legacy of the Code so as not to inadvertently destabilize existing nomenclature.

I have already created a draft of Part 1, and it fits on one PowerPoint slide (i.e., well within the one A4 page limit…)

The very first version of Part 1 was actually scribbled on a scrap of paper at an ICB meeting in London in 2008 by Paul Kirk and myself. It consisted of two articles:

Article 1. In order to be available, a name must be registered.
Article 2. See Article 1.

Though tongue-in-cheek, it actually captures the essence of what I’ve been advocating.

The trick, of course, is building the business rules associated with what is required to complete a “registration” (i.e., what fields are required, what kinds of information they must contain, who is authorized to edit records, and under what circumstances, etc.)  However, these rules could be captured via Policies in a very dynamic way that is much more responsive to the needs of the broader community and the changing landscape of information dissemination technology, than a monolithic Code that is revised every few decades and which requires 4 years to Amend.

Eventually… perhaps by the time we’re ready for the 6th Edition … all of the legacy names will have been retrospectively captured in ZooBank following a method related to the existing LAN approach, and then we’ll never need to have these complex and confusing rules again.

Brave new world.

Aloha,
Rich

From: John Noyes [mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 5:57 AM
To: 'Lyubomir Penev'
Cc: Richard Pyle; Stephen Thorpe; Neal Evenhuis; Frank T. Krell; Sue Gardner; Taxa com; gread at actrix.gen.nz<mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?

Hi Lyubo,

I do not think the arguing takes up that much time. It just seems that way, but it is a very welcome break from the mundane, tedious, banality of actually documenting biodiversity (i.e. describing new taxa).

. . .  We need just much simpler 5th edition of the Code, I believe.”

Yes, one side of A4 would do very nicely.

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229

Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>

From: Lyubomir Penev [mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com]
Sent: 14 April 2015 14:41
To: John Noyes
Cc: Richard Pyle; Stephen Thorpe; Neal Evenhuis; Frank T. Krell; Sue Gardner; Taxa com; gread at actrix.gen.nz<mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?

John,
Indeed! For example, priority of names is one of the fundamental basic postulates of the Code, but is it worth the effort spent to clarify it in each individual case? Shouldn't be the main effort of taxonomists directed to documenting biodiversity, as you say?
Nomenclature is undoubtedly very important but perhaps we pay far too much attention to it on account of description of species and especially of studying their biology. We need just much simpler 5th edition of the Code, I believe.
Very best,
Lyubo


On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 4:21 PM, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>> wrote:
Lyubomir,

AS I see it, these sort of discussions are what Taxacom is for because in the long run they should help clarify things. They also draw attention to areas where there are likely ambiguities. Life is difficult enough presently with probably much less than 5% of the world’s fauna properly documented, so I am all for arguing about angels on the heads of pins if it reduces future problems.

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20942%205594>
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20942%205229>

Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>

From: Lyubomir Penev [mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com<mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com>]
Sent: 14 April 2015 11:53

To: Richard Pyle
Cc: Stephen Thorpe; Neal Evenhuis; Frank T. Krell; Sue Gardner; John Noyes; Taxa com; gread at actrix.gen.nz<mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?

...From the perspective of Pensoft and other publishers, nothing would change.  Anyone who would simply perform registrations without publishing the associated taxonomy in a legitimate journal, is probably already self-publishing thin-description names – so no net loss there.  The only real difference is that we could stop wasting so much time arguing about angels on the head of a pin on issues of pre-publication electronic copies, discrepancies between content of works and content of associated registration records, debates about precise dates of availability for purposes of establishing priority, etc..."

Wholeheartedly agreed!

Best,
Lyubo

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org<mailto:deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>> wrote:
Hi Lyubo,

We’ve been using “new names” in these examples because they are by far the most common Code-governed nomenclatural act.  But, of course, the registry in the “R=A” model would need to encompass ALL nomenclatural acts.  But, if done well, Acts other than new names may well end up as the rare exception (except for historical/retrospective names – which is a whole ‘nother issue).

The Code already takes great pains to separate nomenclature from taxonomy, in terms of what the Code actually governs.  My point is that from the outside perspective, absolutely nothing would change.  The same publications would still be submitted to the same journals with the same content, etc., etc.  The only difference is where the technical action that confers nomenclatural availability takes place.  Historically, and for modern paper-based publications, that action happens only within the published work itself.  For modern electronic publication, actions that confer nomenclatural availability happen in TWO places (the registry, and the published work itself), and it is exactly this asynchrony that sparked the issue that started this thread (among other issues). As the ratio continues to shift away from paper-based nomenclatural acts to electronic nomenclatural acts, the current model (R+P=A) necessitates an increase in this problematic fractioning of nomenclatural availability in two separate actions (registration and publication).

By consolidating actions that confer nomenclatural availability into ONE place (the registry), we can, in the future, simplify the entire process.

From the perspective of Pensoft and other publishers, nothing would change.  Anyone who would simply perform registrations without publishing the associated taxonomy in a legitimate journal, is probably already self-publishing thin-description names – so no net loss there.  The only real difference is that we could stop wasting so much time arguing about angels on the head of a pin on issues of pre-publication electronic copies, discrepancies between content of works and content of associated registration records, debates about precise dates of availability for purposes of establishing priority, etc.

Aloha,
Rich


Richard L. Pyle, PhD
Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences | Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology | Dive Safety Officer
Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum, 1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
Ph: (808)848-4115<tel:%28808%29848-4115>, Fax: (808)847-8252<tel:%28808%29847-8252> email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org<mailto:deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html



From: Lyubomir Penev [mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com<mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 10:55 PM
To: Richard Pyle
Cc: Stephen Thorpe; Neal Evenhuis; Frank T. Krell; Sue Gardner; John Noyes; Taxa com; gread at actrix.gen.nz<mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?

Rich,

I wonder why when discussing the "registration=availability" model, we are talking about new names only? How the model would work for other kinds of nomenclatural (and taxonomic?) acts dealing with names, for example how the model would distinguish between procedures for establishment of, say, objective and subjective synonymies?

The background of my question is that proposing/publishing/registering of a new name definitely requires a scientific input in some kind of publication format, but often even more scientific effort is needed to justify availability of already existing names.

On a more general perspective, is it even possible to so strictly separate nomenclature from taxonomy?

Cheers,

Lyubo

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:38 AM, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org<mailto:deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>> wrote:
Hi Stephen,

> For "Registered = Available" to work, either (1) the description would need to
> be given on the registration form itself, or, (2) if a citation to a published
> description is given, then the existence of such would need to be verified. The
> problem with (1) is that taxonomists would gain no vitation credit for describing
> new taxa (unless the registrations themselves were somehow included in the
> citation system). The problem with (2) is that it might take too much work,
> particularly for publications in obscure places.

You're basically referring to Art. 13.1, which I referenced on multiple occasions in my reply to Neal.  Keep in mind the difference between what is necessary for Code Compliance, and what people typically include in a species description.  I generally agree with you on your point #2, so I would probably advocate that we focus on Art. 13.1.1 as the only legitimate pathway to registration in the "R = A" paradigm. It doesn't require much to legitimately provide a description or definition that states in words characters that are purported to differentiate the taxon (most Diagnoses are sufficient, I should think).

> PS: We also have the problem (which we have always had) of new species
> group names being based on fictional type specimens. Such names are
> presumably unavailable, but their availability cannot be determined from the
> work itself. Therefore, availability will always depend on some external
> considerations. I'm not sure if fictional types can be distinguished from lost
> types, so things get complicated ...

Yes!  And... there may be (at least) a partial solution to this.  At the moment the Code technically requires that the new species descriptions (after 1999) must be accompanied, "where the holotype or syntypes are extant specimens, by a statement of intent that they will be (or are) deposited in a collection and a statement indicating the name and location of that collection". (Art. 16.4.2)  Thus, the types don't actually have to ever *BE* deposited in the indicated collection -- only that a statement of intent be included in the original publication.  I can imagine a registration system governed by the 5th Edition of Code that goes a step further than this, and leverages the ever-increasing availability of online access to specimen data (and associated persistent globally unique identifiers to such) as part of the registration process, enabling a much more explicit indication of a type specimen.

Watch this space....

Aloha,
Rich


Richard L. Pyle, PhD
Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences | Associate Zoologist in Ichthyology | Dive Safety Officer
Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum, 1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
Ph: (808)848-4115<tel:%28808%29848-4115>, Fax: (808)847-8252<tel:%28808%29847-8252> email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org<mailto:deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html





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--
Dr. Lyubomir Penev
Managing Director
Pensoft Publishers
13a Geo Milev Street
1111 Sofia, Bulgaria
Fax +359-2-8704282<tel:%2B359-2-8704282>
ww.pensoft.net<http://www.pensoft.net/journals>
Publishing services for journals: http://www.pensoft.net/services-for-journals
Books published by Pensoft: http://www.pensoft.net/books-published-by-Pensoft
Services for scientific projects: http://www.pensoft.net/projects
Find us on: Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pensoft-Publishers/170816832934216?ref=ts>, Google+<https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/114819936210826038991/114819936210826038991/posts>, Twitter <https://twitter.com/#%21/Pensoft>



--
Dr. Lyubomir Penev
Managing Director
Pensoft Publishers
13a Geo Milev Street
1111 Sofia, Bulgaria
Fax +359-2-8704282
ww.pensoft.net<http://www.pensoft.net/journals>
Publishing services for journals: http://www.pensoft.net/services-for-journals
Books published by Pensoft: http://www.pensoft.net/books-published-by-Pensoft
Services for scientific projects: http://www.pensoft.net/projects
Find us on: Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pensoft-Publishers/170816832934216?ref=ts>, Google+<https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/114819936210826038991/114819936210826038991/posts>, Twitter <https://twitter.com/#%21/Pensoft>


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