[Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Sat Apr 25 21:19:21 CDT 2015


Aw Neal, that joke was fowl ...

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 26/4/15, Neal Evenhuis <neale at bishopmuseum.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
 To: "Anthony Gill" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>, "John Grehan" <calabar.john at gmail.com>
 Cc: "Karl Magnacca" <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>, "TAXACOM" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "Dr. Antonio Lopez" <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
 Received: Sunday, 26 April, 2015, 2:16 PM
 
 If you use chickens, you
 can at least get a pecking order...
 
 
 
 On Stardate
 4/25/15 3:43 PM, "Anthony Gill" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 
 >Well, I've
 just set up a bunch of monkeys on laptops. I'm not
 expecting
 >Shakespeare's sonnets, but
 given enough time I'm hoping they'll knock out
 >a
 >decent taxonomic
 monograph or two.
 >
 >On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:34 AM, John
 Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
 >wrote:
 >
 >> If Stephen's view of biogeography
 is that it is just a series of beliefs
 >> or assertions then there is certainly
 not much more to be said about
 >>that.
 >> Everyone
 is entitled to their beliefs and there is no where further
 to
 >>go
 >> with
 that. But if one views biogeography as a science in the
 sense of
 >> applying methods of
 analysis (of geography and phylogeny) then one goes
 >> beyond just stating a personal belief
 to presenting a reasoned
 >>judgement
 or
 >> argument about the efficacy of
 particular methods and their results - as
 >> with any other science.
 >>
 >> John
 Grehan
 >>
 >> On
 Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Stephen Thorpe <
 >> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 wrote:
 >>
 >>>
 Biogeography is just a pompous "academic" (in the
 worst sense) waste of
 >>> time!
 Putting aside, for present purposes, the vast issue of
 marine
 >>> biogeography, chance
 transoceanic dispersal of terrestrials is
 >>>*unlikely*,
 >>> yes, but all that means is that it
 isn't going to happen lots of times
 >>>in a
 >>>
 short stretch of time. Given many millions of years, it can
 still
 >>>happen
 >>> often enough to be a significant
 factor. There seems to be a slide from
 >>> "unlikely to happen" to
 "can't happen"! Any academic discipline
 which
 >>>is
 >>> based ultimately on chance events
 is not going to be very useful!
 >>>
 Biogeography ... we don't need to know! The existence of
 sister taxa on
 >>> adjacent islands
 (or other landmasses) can be explained equally well by
 >>> dispersal (since dispersal is most
 likely to happen between adjacent
 >>> landmasses) or by vicariance
 (since vicariance is most likely to happen
 >>> between adjacent landmasses)!
 >>>
 >>>
 Stephen
 >>>
 >>>
 --------------------------------------------
 >>> On Sun, 26/4/15, Richard Pyle
 <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
 wrote:
 >>>
 >>>  Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
 Forgotting at the edge of miracles
 >>>  To: "'Anthony
 Gill'" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>,
 "'Karl Magnacca'" <
 >>> kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
 >>>  Cc:
 "'TAXACOM'" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
 "'Dr. Antonio Lopez'" <
 >>> cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
 >>>  Received: Sunday, 26 April,
 2015, 12:35 AM
 >>>
 >>>  The same argument could
 >>>  be applied to ANY model of
 biogeography (dispersal,
 >>> 
 vicariance, panbiogeography, etc., etc.)  That is, any
 >>>  presumption that any single
 model accounts for every pattern
 >>>  (or even most patterns) is, in
 my opinion, naïve.  This is
 >>> 
 not to say that, in the end, one model does not dominate.
 >>>  But we are SO, SO, SO far away
 from understanding both
 >>> 
 evolutionary history and the actual distribution patterns
 of
 >>>  most living things, that
 only people who don't really
 >>>  understand the nature of
 biodiversity make claims that we
 >>>  are close to fully understanding
 it.
 >>>
 >>>  Aloha,
 >>>  Rich
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>  > -----Original
 >>>  Message-----
 >>>  > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
 >>>  On Behalf Of
 >>>  > Anthony Gill
 >>>  > Sent: Saturday, April 25,
 2015 1:12 AM
 >>>  > To: Karl
 Magnacca
 >>>  > Cc:
 >>>  TAXACOM; Dr. Antonio Lopez
 >>>  > Subject: Re:
 >>>  [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge
 of miracles
 >>>  >
 >>>  > Of course, there are
 >>>  other from beyond
 panbiogeography that are concerned
 >>>  > that dispersal explanations
 should not be
 >>>  given a
 first-order explanation for
 >>> 
 >
 >>>  everything in
 biogeography. There is pattern to be
 >>>  discovered and explored. A
 >>>  > presumption
 >>>  of dispersal as an explanation
 for everything makes for
 >>>  >
 uninteresting, and ultimately irrelevant,
 >>>  research. I want no part of
 that.
 >>>  >
 >>>  > Tony
 >>>  >
 >>>  > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at
 10:55 AM, Karl
 >>>  Magnacca
 >>>  > <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
 >>>  > wrote:
 >>>  >
 >>>  > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2015
 13:24:32
 >>>  "Dr. Antonio
 Lopez"
 >>>  > >
 >>>  <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
 >>>  wrote:
 >>>  > > > Colleague:
 >>>  > > >
 >>>  > > >
 >>>  Thank you for the article of
 Head. Only when I read
 >>> 
 everything I am
 >>>  > >
 > able to
 >>>  understand and
 to reason. I never understood that
 >>>  supposed
 >>>  > > > difference
 between
 >>>  dispersalism and
 vicariancism as different
 >>> 
 > > > schools.
 >>> 
 >
 >>>  >
 >>>  > > That's because
 >>>  they're not.  It's only
 in the mind of
 >>> 
 panbiogeograpy
 >>>  > >
 supporters like
 >>>  Grehan and
 Heads, who promote the idea that because
 >>>  > > rare trans-oceanic
 dispersal is
 >>>  unlikely, that
 therefore it never
 >>>  >
 >
 >>>  happens (while
 simultaneously claiming that they say no such
 >>>  thing,
 >>>  > > invoking the undefined
 term
 >>>  "regular
 dispersal") that such a dichotomy
 >>>  > > exists.
 >>>  > >
 >>>  > > Karl
 >>>  > >
 >>>  > >
 >>> 
 _______________________________________________
 >>>  > > Taxacom Mailing
 List
 >>>  > > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >>>  > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >>>  > > The Taxacom Archive
 back to 1992 may
 >>>  be searched
 at:
 >>>  > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >>>  > >
 >>>  > > Celebrating
 >>>  28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
 >>>  > >
 >>>  >
 >>>  >
 >>>  >
 >>>  > --
 >>>  > Dr Anthony C. Gill
 >>>  >
 >>>  Natural History Curator
 >>>  > A12 Macleay
 >>>  Museum
 >>>  > University of Sydney
 >>>  > NSW 2006
 >>>  >
 >>>  Australia.
 >>>  >
 >>>  > Ph.
 >>>  +61 02 9036 6499
 >>>  >
 >>> 
 _______________________________________________
 >>>  > Taxacom Mailing List
 >>>  >
 >>>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >>>  > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >>>  > The Taxacom Archive back to
 1992 may be
 >>>  searched at:
 >>>  > http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >>>  >
 >>>  > Celebrating 28 years
 >>>  of Taxacom in 2015.
 >>>
 >>> 
 _______________________________________________
 >>>  Taxacom Mailing List
 >>>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >>>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >>>  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
 may be
 >>>  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >>>
 >>> 
 Celebrating 28 years of
 >>> 
 Taxacom in 2015.
 >>>
 >>>
 _______________________________________________
 >>> Taxacom Mailing List
 >>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
 may be searched at:
 >>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >>>
 >>>
 Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >
 >
 >--
 >Dr Anthony C. Gill
 >Natural History Curator
 >A12 Macleay Museum
 >University of Sydney
 >NSW 2006
 >Australia.
 >
 >Ph. +61 02 9036
 6499
 >_______________________________________________
 >Taxacom Mailing List
 >Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 searched at:
 >http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >
 >Celebrating 28 years
 of Taxacom in 2015.
 
 
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