[Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 21:56:01 CDT 2015


We already have plenty of monkeys - us.

John Grehan

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Anthony Gill <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well, I've just set up a bunch of monkeys on laptops. I'm not expecting
> Shakespeare's sonnets, but given enough time I'm hoping they'll knock out a
> decent taxonomic monograph or two.
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:34 AM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> If Stephen's view of biogeography is that it is just a series of beliefs
>> or assertions then there is certainly not much more to be said about that.
>> Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and there is no where further to go
>> with that. But if one views biogeography as a science in the sense of
>> applying methods of analysis (of geography and phylogeny) then one goes
>> beyond just stating a personal belief to presenting a reasoned judgement or
>> argument about the efficacy of particular methods and their results - as
>> with any other science.
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> Biogeography is just a pompous "academic" (in the worst sense) waste of
>>> time! Putting aside, for present purposes, the vast issue of marine
>>> biogeography, chance transoceanic dispersal of terrestrials is *unlikely*,
>>> yes, but all that means is that it isn't going to happen lots of times in a
>>> short stretch of time. Given many millions of years, it can still happen
>>> often enough to be a significant factor. There seems to be a slide from
>>> "unlikely to happen" to "can't happen"! Any academic discipline which is
>>> based ultimately on chance events is not going to be very useful!
>>> Biogeography ... we don't need to know! The existence of sister taxa on
>>> adjacent islands (or other landmasses) can be explained equally well by
>>> dispersal (since dispersal is most likely to happen between adjacent
>>> landmasses) or by vicariance (since vicariance is most likely to happen
>>> between adjacent landmasses)!
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Sun, 26/4/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>>  To: "'Anthony Gill'" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>, "'Karl Magnacca'" <
>>> kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>>  Cc: "'TAXACOM'" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "'Dr. Antonio Lopez'" <
>>> cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>>  Received: Sunday, 26 April, 2015, 12:35 AM
>>>
>>>  The same argument could
>>>  be applied to ANY model of biogeography (dispersal,
>>>  vicariance, panbiogeography, etc., etc.)  That is, any
>>>  presumption that any single model accounts for every pattern
>>>  (or even most patterns) is, in my opinion, naïve.  This is
>>>  not to say that, in the end, one model does not dominate.
>>>  But we are SO, SO, SO far away from understanding both
>>>  evolutionary history and the actual distribution patterns of
>>>  most living things, that only people who don't really
>>>  understand the nature of biodiversity make claims that we
>>>  are close to fully understanding it.
>>>
>>>  Aloha,
>>>  Rich
>>>
>>>
>>>  > -----Original
>>>  Message-----
>>>  > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>>>  On Behalf Of
>>>  > Anthony Gill
>>>  > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 1:12 AM
>>>  > To: Karl Magnacca
>>>  > Cc:
>>>  TAXACOM; Dr. Antonio Lopez
>>>  > Subject: Re:
>>>  [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>>  >
>>>  > Of course, there are
>>>  other from beyond panbiogeography that are concerned
>>>  > that dispersal explanations should not be
>>>  given a first-order explanation for
>>>  >
>>>  everything in biogeography. There is pattern to be
>>>  discovered and explored. A
>>>  > presumption
>>>  of dispersal as an explanation for everything makes for
>>>  > uninteresting, and ultimately irrelevant,
>>>  research. I want no part of that.
>>>  >
>>>  > Tony
>>>  >
>>>  > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Karl
>>>  Magnacca
>>>  > <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>>  > wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 13:24:32
>>>  "Dr. Antonio Lopez"
>>>  > >
>>>  <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>>  wrote:
>>>  > > > Colleague:
>>>  > > >
>>>  > > >
>>>  Thank you for the article of Head. Only when I read
>>>  everything I am
>>>  > > > able to
>>>  understand and to reason. I never understood that
>>>  supposed
>>>  > > > difference between
>>>  dispersalism and vicariancism as different
>>>  > > > schools.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > > That's because
>>>  they're not.  It's only in the mind of
>>>  panbiogeograpy
>>>  > > supporters like
>>>  Grehan and Heads, who promote the idea that because
>>>  > > rare trans-oceanic dispersal is
>>>  unlikely, that therefore it never
>>>  > >
>>>  happens (while simultaneously claiming that they say no such
>>>  thing,
>>>  > > invoking the undefined term
>>>  "regular dispersal") that such a dichotomy
>>>  > > exists.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Karl
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  > > Taxacom Mailing List
>>>  > > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>  > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>  > > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
>>>  be searched at:
>>>  > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Celebrating
>>>  28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>  > >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > --
>>>  > Dr Anthony C. Gill
>>>  >
>>>  Natural History Curator
>>>  > A12 Macleay
>>>  Museum
>>>  > University of Sydney
>>>  > NSW 2006
>>>  >
>>>  Australia.
>>>  >
>>>  > Ph.
>>>  +61 02 9036 6499
>>>  >
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  > Taxacom Mailing List
>>>  >
>>>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>  > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>  > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>>>  searched at:
>>>  > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>  >
>>>  > Celebrating 28 years
>>>  of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Taxacom Mailing List
>>>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>>>  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>>  Celebrating 28 years of
>>>  Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>> Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr Anthony C. Gill
> Natural History Curator
> A12 Macleay Museum
> University of Sydney
> NSW 2006
> Australia.
>
> Ph. +61 02 9036 6499
>
>



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