[Taxacom] Wikispecies has gone to the dogs, best to disregard it now

Adolf Ceska aceska at telus.net
Thu Apr 30 02:22:31 CDT 2015


I have been using a great database for storing photos, microphotos and drawings of collected objects that should enhance our herbarium collection database. This jpeg database has been brilliantly programmed and it uses all the system design conventions computer programmers have ever developed. Furthermore, it has an email attached to it that the users can interact and discuss identification problems. It would have been an ideal tool as an extension of a regular herbarium database system. The problem is that it was designed and developed without any major participation of the herbarium data management people. I am in the same situation as you are, whenever I call for fixing some obvious blunders in the system, I am being ignored. Everything I say is just my usual rhetoric, not worthy of a response. 
Adolf Ceska


-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:06 PM
To: Scott Thomson
Cc: Taxacom
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Wikispecies has gone to the dogs, best to disregard it now

You have misattributed to me a lot of "you would have ..." The one who edited the page has no idea what he is doing, that's the whole point! The rest of what you say is just your usual rhetoric, not worthy of a response.

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 30/4/15, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Wikispecies has gone to the dogs, best to disregard it now
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 Cc: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "JF Mate" <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
 Received: Thursday, 30 April, 2015, 2:48 PM
 
 If I
 had fixed it immediately you would have accused me of trying  to hide it. So how do I win in that. So I have left it for  now and will let the one who edited the page fix it. In good  time so that if people wish to see it as you linked it, they  can. I do not have control over Wikispecies, that's not  how Wikimedia works. As for Wollumbinia and Myuchelys, I  should sink them both into Birlimarr and stop all the  arguments that name is from 1999, so predates both names.
 There is more politics to all that than you know, and its  lately giving me headaches too. Not the usage of  Wollumbinia, about 4 or 5 people on the planet take your  view on that, including Wells, Wellington and Hoser who all  have motivations. But other issues with the names and the  impact of Conservation Biology on taxonomy in Australia. I  dont plan on having that much influence on Wikispecies, I  dont feel the need for that. My interest is in turtle  taxonomy and paleontology. Now the interesting thing here is  I actually conceded your point here, and I have told you you  have some valid points, but it does not matter. If I had  disagreed or agreed the response would be the same you would  have found a way to fight back, I get your angry about  Wikimedia, but this is not helping you. 
 
 Cheers, Scott
 
 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at
 11:23 PM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 wrote:
 Scott,
 this is precisely the sort of control over a Wikimedia site  that nobody, least of all you, should have. Anyone should be  able to correct the mistake by PeterR, without having to  first "seek approval". You might well get this  particular example sorted out (though you don't appear  to have done anything as yet), but would you be so objective  if I were to point out that Wollumbinia has priority over  Myuchelys? I think not. But it is cool - you can have  control over an irrelevant Wikimedia side project that you  yourself told me that Jimmy Wales thought had been taken  down years ago. I doubt that your activities will have any  real influence on anything.
 
 
 
 Stephen
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Thu, 30/4/15, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Wikispecies has gone to the dogs,  best to disregard it now
 
  To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
  Cc: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,  "JF Mate" <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
 
  Received: Thursday, 30 April, 2015, 2:00 PM
 
 
 
  I
 
  would say your correct on that one Stephen, I will let  him
 
  know.
 
 
 
  Cheers,
 
  Scott
 
 
 
  On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at
 
  10:16 PM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
  wrote:
 
  Well I
 
  did actually give you one example! One long time editor  who,
 
  barely speaks English, and who has just been promoted  to
 
  admin status, doesn't know the difference between a
 
  synonym and a homonym, and nobody is reviewing his edits.
 http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Austrophthiracarus_longisetosus
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Stephen
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
 
 
  On Thu, 30/4/15, JF Mate <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Wikispecies has gone to the  dogs, 
 
       best to disregard it now
 
 
 
   To: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 
 
 
   Received: Thursday, 30 April, 2015, 12:56 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   To be honest I really
 
 
 
   don´t care for the fight. I only care to know
 
 
 
   what it is meant by Wikispecies not being
 
 
 
   reliable. If somebody can
 
 
 
   just give us the
 
 
 
   facts that would be OK. Otherwise we can bury the
 
 
 
   thread here and now.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Jason
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   On 30
 
 
 
   April 2015 at 01:19, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
 
 
   wrote:
 
 
 
   > I was waiting for your response,
 
 
 
   Scott, since you are one of the major players in the
 
 
 
   dispute, i.e. your hands are dirty! You can turn it  into
 
  an
 
 
 
   ad hominem argument against me if you wish, but it
 
 
 
   doesn't change the facts of what I said, namely
 
  that
 
 
 
   Wikispecies is no longer a reliable site, and should  be
 
 
 
   diregarded. Now you can go back to your Wikispecies
 
  agenda
 
 
 
   of trying to rewrite the history of reptile taxonomy.
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   > Stephen
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   --------------------------------------------
 
 
 
   > On Thu, 30/4/15, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
 
 
 
   wrote:
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  Subject:
 
 
 
   Re: [Taxacom] Wikispecies has gone to the dogs,   
 
 
 
      best to disregard it now
 
 
 
   >  To: "JF Mate" <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
 
 
 
   >  Cc: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 
 
 
   >  Received: Thursday, 30 April, 2015,
 
 
 
   11:14 AM
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  I did
 
 
 
   not relise this had
 
 
 
   >  been crossposted
 
 
 
   to Taxacom as well as ICZN
 
 
 
   >  List.. My
 
 
 
   response over there was:
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  --------------------------------
 
 
 
   >  Stephen that is low, Wikimedia cannot
 
 
 
   defend
 
 
 
   >  themselves here and you
 
 
 
   have
 
 
 
   >  cherry picked
 
 
 
   >  one item that agrees with your
 
 
 
   statement. I am not going
 
 
 
   >  to
 
 
 
   >  argue with you here, since it is not
 
 
 
   the
 
 
 
   >  ICZN lists business, however
 
 
 
   if
 
 
 
   >  you are
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   going to say you have been blocked maybe you should  say
 
 
 
   why
 
 
 
   >  you
 
 
 
   >  have
 
 
 
   been permanently banned from the
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   English Wikipedia and Wikispecies and
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   are on
 
 
 
   >  blocks for Meta-Wiki and Wiki
 
 
 
   Commons. Thats 4 sites, in my
 
 
 
   >  8
 
 
 
   years
 
 
 
   >  as an editor in Wikimedia
 
 
 
   although I
 
 
 
   >  am sure there are others,
 
 
 
   and worse, I
 
 
 
   >  personally have not seen
 
 
 
   anyone else get a ban
 
 
 
   >  like that so
 
 
 
   quickly. Your
 
 
 
   >  hatred of
 
 
 
   >  wikimedia is very evident in what you
 
 
 
   have said in recent
 
 
 
   >  times,
 
 
 
   >  it extends clearly from the treatment
 
 
 
   >  you received. Hence anything you say
 
 
 
   >  anywhere on Wikispecies or any other
 
 
 
   Wikimedia
 
 
 
   >  Project needs to be
 
 
 
   taken
 
 
 
   >  with a grain of
 
 
 
   >  salt and is clearly dipped in acid. I
 
 
 
   have told you
 
 
 
   >  before
 
 
 
   >  you need to let this go for a while,
 
 
 
   >  let it calm down. I even said I would
 
 
 
   >  propose the removal of the bans, but you
 
 
 
   have
 
 
 
   >  to stop and let it go and fix
 
 
 
   >  the damage
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   first.
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  Now
 
 
 
   please, let it
 
 
 
   >  go this is not the
 
 
 
   forum for it.
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   -------------------------------------
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  In response to
 
 
 
   Jason, it is a
 
 
 
   >  playground fight. I
 
 
 
   was not involved in it,
 
 
 
   >  made sure I
 
 
 
   stayed out of it, but I have had to
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   watch it. Not pretty.
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  Cheers, Scott
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 7:19 PM, JF Mate
 
 
 
   <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
 
 
 
   >  wrote:
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  > Maybe you
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   should copy and paste the actual example/s as  succintly
 
 
 
   >  as
 
 
 
   >  > possible.
 
 
 
   Otherwise it just looks
 
 
 
   >  like a
 
 
 
   playground fight.
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >  > Jason
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   On 30/04/2015
 
 
 
   >  8:03 AM, "Stephen
 
 
 
   Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
 
 
   >  > wrote:
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  > > There has been a
 
 
 
   "military
 
 
 
   >  takeover" of
 
 
 
   Wikispecies, by people who know
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   > not what they are doing (see, for
 
 
 
   >  example, this article
 
 
 
   >  > > http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Austrophthiracarus_longisetosus
 
 
 
   >  in
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   which homonymy has been
 
 
 
   >  confused with
 
 
 
   synonymy!) I have been excluded and
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   > > blocked from editing the site in
 
 
 
   >  future. The following comment, posted
 
 
 
   by
 
 
 
   >  > > another editor who is
 
 
 
   alarmed by what
 
 
 
   >  is happening (please
 
 
 
   excuse his
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   >  English) is illustrative of the current
 
 
 
   situation, so I copy
 
 
 
   >  it below
 
 
 
   >  > from
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  the Wikispecies Village Pump:
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   > Reducing time for working at
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   Wikispecies
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >  > At
 
 
 
   Wikispecies about 2 million taxon pages are missing.
 
 
 
   >  Instead of really
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   > > contributing to
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   Wikispecies, that is adding new pages, there is a
 
  playing
 
 
 
   >  > > around with an AWB and
 
 
 
   modifying or
 
 
 
   >  deleting things that do
 
 
 
   no harm, like
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >  > the double square brackets of taxon
 
 
 
   names on hundreds
 
 
 
   >  of thousand
 
 
 
   pages.
 
 
 
   >  > > And proudly is
 
 
 
   >  told of "contributions". That
 
 
 
   are no
 
 
 
   >  contributions. There
 
 
 
   >  > is
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   nothing professional in it.
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   Wikispecies is the only Wiki that expects to
 
 
 
   >  > > have users from the
 
 
 
   scientific
 
 
 
   >  community. Observing what
 
 
 
   is done at
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >  > present, will not attract such
 
 
 
   users. It will lead to a
 
 
 
   >  number of
 
 
 
   closed
 
 
 
   >  > > Wikis for groups
 
 
 
   >  of organisms, as first ones are already
 
 
 
   existing, so
 
 
 
   >  > that
 
 
 
   >  > > such
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   unprofessional actions are not possible.
 
 
 
   >  > > I'll considerably reduce
 
 
 
   my
 
 
 
   >  working time here under the
 
 
 
   present
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   > circumstances. Kempf EK (talk) 16:18, 28 April
 
  2015
 
 
 
   >  (UTC)
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   _______________________________________________
 
 
 
   >  > > Taxacom Mailing List
 
 
 
   >  > > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
 
 
   >  > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
 
 
   >  > > The Taxacom Archive back to
 
 
 
   1992 may
 
 
 
   >  be searched at:
 
 
 
   >  > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   > Celebrating
 
 
 
   >  28 years of Taxacom
 
 
 
   in 2015.
 
 
 
   >  > >
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   _______________________________________________
 
 
 
   >  > Taxacom Mailing List
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
 
 
   >  > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
 
 
   >  > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
 
 
 
   may be
 
 
 
   >  searched at:
 
 
 
   >  > http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   Celebrating 28 years
 
 
 
   >  of Taxacom in
 
 
 
   2015.
 
 
 
   >  >
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  --
 
 
 
   >  Scott
 
 
 
   Thomson
 
 
 
   >  Museu de Zoologia
 
 
 
   >  da Universidade de São Paulo
 
 
 
   >  Divisão de
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
 
 
 
   >  Avenida
 
 
 
   Nazaré,
 
 
 
   >  481, Ipiranga
 
 
 
   >  04263-000, São Paulo, SP,
 
 
 
   >  Brasil
 
 
 
   >  http://www.carettochelys.com
 
 
 
   >  ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
 
 
 
   >  Skype: Faendalimas
 
 
 
   >  Reptile
 
 
 
   >  Names (my
 
 
 
   blog) http://reptilenames.wordpress.com/
 
 
 
   >  Mobile Phone: +55 11
 
  996 48 5668
 
 
 
   >  Mobile in Australia +61 402 357 553
 
 
 
   (0402 357
 
 
 
   >  553)
 
 
 
   > 
 
 
 
   _______________________________________________
 
 
 
   >  Taxacom Mailing List
 
 
 
   >  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
 
 
   >  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
 
 
   >  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
 
 
 
   be
 
 
 
   >  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   >  Celebrating 28
 
 
 
   years of
 
 
 
   >  Taxacom in 2015.
 
 
 
   >
 
 
 
   _______________________________________________
 
 
 
   Taxacom Mailing List
 
 
 
   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
 
 
   http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
 
 
   The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 
 
 
   searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Celebrating 28 years of
 
 
 
   Taxacom in 2015.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  _______________________________________________
 
 
 
  Taxacom Mailing List
 
 
 
  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 
 
 
  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 
 
 
  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
 
  Scott
 
  Thomson
 
  Museu de Zoologia da
 
  Universidade de São PauloDivisão de
 Vertebrados
 
  (Herpetologia)
 
  Avenida Nazaré,
 
  481, Ipiranga04263-000, São Paulo, SP,
 
  Brasilhttp://www.carettochelys.com
 
  ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722Skype:
 
  FaendalimasReptile Names (my blog) http://reptilenames.wordpress.com/Mobile
 
  Phone: +55 11 996 48 5668Mobile in Australia +61
 
  402 357 553 (0402 357 553)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Scott
 Thomson
 Museu de Zoologia da
 Universidade de São PauloDivisão de Vertebrados
 (Herpetologia)
 Avenida Nazaré,
 481, Ipiranga04263-000, São Paulo, SP,
 Brasilhttp://www.carettochelys.com
 ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722Skype:
 FaendalimasReptile Names (my blog) http://reptilenames.wordpress.com/Mobile
 Phone: +55 11 996 48 5668Mobile in Australia +61
 402 357 553 (0402 357 553)
 
_______________________________________________
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Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.





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