[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

Scott Thomson scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Tue Oct 13 18:21:35 CDT 2015


Heya,

makes sense thanks, and yes I agree Stephen doing anything before final
version would not be wise. My question was hypothetical.

Cheers, Scott

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
wrote:

> Frank said >In catalogues I would just use the page numbers of the paper
> integrated in a journal issue, and not the former page numbers of the early
> electronic publication, because the journal pagination is there to stay<
>
> Except if the print issue has not been published yet! If Scott's question
> was indeed just about citation of page numbers before the print edition is
> published, then it is customary to cite, e.g. [3] for the third page.
> However, if Scott's question was more about preliminary versions published
> electronically, then one would be very unwise to synonymise anything until
> the final version of record is published!
>
> Stephen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 14/10/15, Frank T. Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary
> electronic versions of taxonomic papers
>  To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "Scott Thomson" <
> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>  Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  Received: Wednesday, 14 October, 2015, 12:11 PM
>
>  This is almost true,
>  Stephen. There is indeed no mandatory page priority in
>  zoological nomenclature. It is merely a convention some
>  people like to follow (often because they think that there
>  is something like page priority in the Code).
>  However, we have Recommentation 69A.10,
>  referring to the selection of type species: "All
>  otherthings being equal, preference should be given to the
>  nominal species cited first in the work, page or line
>  ("position precedence")." This is a
>  non-mandatory Recommendation, and we have to see if it
>  survives the editing process for the next Code. I am not
>  sure that this Recommendation makes much sense.
>
>  Position precedence works well
>  with a changing set of page numbers, e.g. when an early
>  electronic publication with page numbers 1-11 gets
>  integrated into a journal issue and ends up to be on pages
>  254-265. As long as the pagination goes in single steps from
>  the lower to the higher number, there is no problem at all
>  to determine position precedence :-)
>
>  Of course, for cataloguers changing page
>  numbers are very inconvenient, but as long as we still have
>  journal issues to be compiled after the early electronic
>  publication of the papers, this is an inconvenience we will
>  have to live with, and we can easily live with. In
>  catalogues I would just use the page numbers of the paper
>  integrated in a journal issue, and not the former page
>  numbers of the early electronic publication, because the
>  journal pagination is there to stay.
>
>  Cheers
>
>  Frank
>
>
>  Dr. Frank-T. Krell, Chair, ZooBank Committee
>  http://zoobank.org
>  Commissioner, International Commission on
>  Zoological Nomenclature
>  Curator of
>  Entomology
>  Department of Zoology
>  Denver Museum of Nature & Science
>  2001 Colorado Boulevard
>  Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
>  Frank.Krell at dmns.org
>
>  Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
>  Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
>  http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
>  lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
>
>  Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 4:58 PM
>  To: Frank T. Krell; Scott Thomson
>  Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
>  availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic
>  papers
>
>  There is no such
>  thing as page priority in zoological nomenclature.
>
>  Stephen
>
>  --------------------------------------------
>  On Wed, 14/10/15, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re:
>  [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary
>  electronic versions of taxonomic papers
>   To:
>  "Frank T. Krell" <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
>   Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>  <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   Received: Wednesday, 14 October, 2015, 11:38
>  AM
>
>   Hi Frank,
>
>   I find this an
>  interesting
>   topic and have a question, I am
>  currently  reading both yours and Alain's papers. I
>  accept this is a rare scenario  however it  does happen.
>  In the event of a later reviewer of a  taxonomic  work
>  which has named several  species in the same work, decides
>  the taxa are  not all valid and wishes to synonymise them
>  into less taxa (hypothetical  example here)  if we are
>  accepting the final immutable version whether  or  not it
>  has the metadata are you  suggesting that if we need to
>  use  pagination  for determining priority, we take that by
>  implication? By  that I  mean just use the logical
>  sequence of  the pages to determine priority. Or  once
>  the  version with the metadata is out use that to
>  determine  the  sequence of the descriptions, but use
>  the date of the final immutable  version as  the date of
>  publication? There are very old texts where that  was
>  necessary so its not without precedent  however to my
>  knowledge no recent  papers  required this.
>
>   Sorry for
>
>  what sounds like a nit picking question, its not meant to
>  be, I  just like to see the bases covered and  its a
>  difficulty that came to mind.
>
>   Cheers, Scott
>
>   On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Frank T.
>  Krell  <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
>   wrote:
>
>
>  >
>   Dear Colleagues,
>
>  >
>   >
>   my paper on the
>  same topic that Dubois et al. suggest to  reject is also
>  > available on Research  Gate and academia.edu:
>   >
>   >
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274372707_A_mixed_bag_when_are_early_online_publications_available_for_nomenclatural_purposes
>   >
>   >
> https://www.academia.edu/11757528/A_mixed_bag_when_are_early_online_publications_available_for_nomenclatural_purposes
>   >
>   > I consider my
>   suggestions a more realistic and workable
>  approach.
>   >
>   > All
>  the best
>   >
>   >
>  Frank
>   >
>   > Dr.
>  Frank-T. Krell,
>   Chair, ZooBank Committee
>   > http://zoobank.org
>
>  >
>   Commissioner, International Commission
>  on Zoological  Nomenclature  > Curator of Entomology
>  > Department of Zoology  >  Denver Museum of Nature
>  & Science  >
>   2001 Colorado
>  Boulevard
>   > Denver, CO
>
>  80205-5798 USA
>   > Frank.Krell at dmns.org
>   > Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
>   > Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
>
>  > http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
>   > lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab  >
>  >  >  >  >  > -----Original
>   Message-----
>   > From:
>  Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>   On Behalf Of
>   > Alain
>  Dubois
>   > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015
>  6:29 PM  > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>  > Subject: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural  availability of
>  preliminary electronic  >  versions of taxonomic
>  papers  >  > Dear Colleagues,  >  > We
>  published in the *Bulletin of  Zoological Nomenclature* a
>  paper dealing  > with the electronic availability of
>  preliminary versions (so-called 'early  >
>  views') of taxonomic papers containing  new names or
>  nomenclatural acts.
>   >
>
>  > This paper can be downloaded at:
>
>  >
>   >
>   >
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282651131_Nomenclatural_availability_of_preliminary_electronic_versions_of_taxonomic_papers_in_need_of_a_clear_definition
>   >
>   > or
>
>  >
>   >
>   >
>
> https://www.academia.edu/16552783/Nomenclatural_availability_of_preliminary_electronic_versions_of_taxonomic_papers_in_need_of_a_clear_definition
>   >
>   > In this paper,
>  we
>   proposed the creation of a
>  'label' for journals  taking  > the engagement
>  to publish online  only one version of each paper, with
>  its  > final date, issue number and  pagination.
>   >
>   >
>
>  Colleagues, editors and publishers interested in this
>  proposal of label  > are welcome to  contact us at
>  <zoonomina at gmail.com>.
>   >
>   > Best wishes,
>   >
>   > Alain Dubois
>   >
>   >
>
>  ____________________________________
>
>  >
>   > Professeur Alain Dubois
>   > Muséum National d'Histoire
>   Naturelle
>   > Institut
>  Systématique,
>   Evolution, Biodiversité
>  (ISYEB) - UMR 7205 Reptiles  > & Amphibiens CP 30
>  > 25 rue Cuvier  > 75005  Paris  > France
>  >  > emails: <adbionomina at gmail.com>,
>  <adpeerj at gmail.com>,
>  <adubois at mnhn.fr>
>  >  > Chief Editor,  Bionomina  > <http://www.mapress.com/bionomina>
>   >
>   > Nomenclature
>  Editor,
>   Zootaxa
>   >
>  <http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/>
>   >
>   > Academic Editor,
>   PeerJ
>   > <https://peerj.com>
>
>  > ____________________________________
>
>  >
>   > “La culture ce
>
>  n’est pas avoir le cerveau farci de dates, de noms ou
>  de  > chiffres, c’est la qualité du  jugement,
>  l’exigence logique, l’appétit de la  > preuve, la
>  notion de la complexité des  choses et de l’arduité
>  des  >  problèmes. C’est l’habitude du doute, le
>  discernement  dans la méfiance, la  > modestie
>  d’opinion, la patience d’ignorer, la certitude qu’on
>  n’a jamais  > tout le vrai en partage;  c’est avoir
>  l’esprit ferme sans l’avoir rigide,  > c’est être
>  armé contre le flou et  aussi contre la fausse précision,
>  c’est  > refuser tous les fanatismes et jusqu’à
>  ceux qui s’autorisent de la raison;  >  c’est
>  suspecter les dogmatismes officiels mais sans profit  pour
>  les  > charlatans, c’est révérer  le génie mais
>  sans en faire une idole, c’est  > toujours préférer
>  ce qui est à ce  qu’on préférerait qui fût.”
>   >
>   (Jean Rostand, Le droit
>  d’être naturaliste, 1963).
>   >
>  ____________________________________
>
>  >
>
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>
>
>   --
>   Scott Thomson
>   Museu de Zoologia
>   da
>  Universidade de São Paulo
>   Divisão de
>   Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
>
>  Avenida Nazaré,
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>
>
>


-- 
Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré, 481, Ipiranga
04263-000, São Paulo, SP, Brasil
http://www.carettochelys.com
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