[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

Scott Thomson scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 16 14:57:25 CDT 2015


What Roderick says about internal linking of web pages is relevant to pdf`s
also and was even possible in Word from about version 6 onwards, so its
nothing new. Personally with large pdf`s I hate it if they are not
internally lined and generally for well used papers I add  this myself to
my own copies. The wanted first mention of a new taxon can just as easily
be given as a reference to an internal link to that name as it can by a
page number.

In pdf pages are conserved and hence so are page numbers, though this can
have a caveat in the pdf reader, Depending on how it was made the quick
links to page numbers will link to the electronic pages in sequence
starting at 1, and this may include the cover, inside cover, index then
onto the text. Hence the electronic page number and the one on the page may
not agree. I Make this point to say that in the journal`s defence it is
impossible to have set page numbers in a pre-print edition as the final
page numbers cannot be determined until every paper going in that issue is
finalized and they move onto hardcopy construction of the edition. My
earlier querie on page numbers was a querie on one issue, I actually do not
care that much about page numbers, since I have to deal with Mikan, 1820
all the time anyway which is unpaginated.

I think the best we can do based on what electronic forms we are currently
willing to accept can only be handled by extremely rigid and clear Act`s
regarding this in the code. Ok that was comment on what is currently
accepted. Which I have also tried to keep on topic with the original posts
by Alain and Frank. However I would like to make one comment on the future.

Publishing is advancing at an extreme rate, just are computers and the it
industry and the internet. Not keeping up with it will make us redundant.
That is not a place to be. We will have to eventually accept some of these
other formats as being a vehicle of valid publication, not all but some. We
do not have to accept every form just so long as we are accepting a
selection of what is available at that time. A hypothetical example may be
to eventually accept pdf/a, kindle certain other e-books under constraints,
but to not accept html, xml, php or e-books that cannot be constrained
against re-edit. In other words accept methods that prevent end user
alteration, do not accept material people can edit themselves.

Cheers, Scott
On Oct 16, 2015 2:09 PM, "Roderic Page" <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hopefully eBooks (similar to Kindle), HTML, XML will never be accepted as
> pubs under the Code because they are dynamic.
>
> And that, in a nutshell, is why some of us despair at the current state of
> taxonomy. Do we really wish that some of the more innovative means of
> publishing (never mind what will come in the future) are never accepted.
> Never, really?
>
> Regards
>
> Rod
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Roderic Page
> Professor of Taxonomy
> Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> Graham Kerr Building
> University of Glasgow
> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>
> Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> Skype:  rdmpage
> Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> LinkedIn:  http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> Twitter:  http://twitter.com/rdmpage
> Blog:  http://iphylo.blogspot.com
> ORCID:  http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> Citations:  http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
>
>
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 17:48, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:
> j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Rod,
>
> What you are talking about here (E-books etc.) are not publications under
> the ICZN so they are not really relevant. We are only talking about e-pubs
> that are accepted under the current Code. Hopefully eBooks (similar to
> Kindle), HTML, XML will never be accepted as pubs under the Code because
> they are dynamic.
>
> John
>
> John Noyes
> Scientific Associate
> Department of Life Sciences
> Natural History Museum
> Cromwell Road
> South Kensington
> London SW7 5BD
> UK
> jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
> Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
> Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
>
> Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about
> chalcidoids and more):
> www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
>
> From: Roderic Page [mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk]
> Sent: 16 October 2015 17:40
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Cc: Laurent Raty; John Noyes
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary
> electronic versions of taxonomic papers
>
> Isn’t part of the issue here that we are applying one notion of locating
> text (page number) to a situation where the notion of “page” may be fuzzy
> at best?
>
> Documents such as web pages or eBooks either don’t have pages, or the
> “page” may change depending on font size, device screen, etc.
>
> People who develop software to annotate web pages, eBook pages, etc. have
> multiple ways of locating bits of text, such as XPaths [fragments of the
> HTML or XML that may underly the document], text fragments before and
> after, number of characters into the document, etc. These work, as anyone
> highlighting text in the Kindle app or iBooks, or indeed Google Docs or
> Word will attest.
>
> The nature of “publication" has changed, so we need to embrace more
> general notions of location in documents. This is a problem others have
> faced, and solved.
>
> Regards
>
> Rod
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Roderic Page
> Professor of Taxonomy
> Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> Graham Kerr Building
> University of Glasgow
> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>
> Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> Skype:  rdmpage
> Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> LinkedIn:  http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> Twitter:  http://twitter.com/rdmpage
> Blog:  http://iphylo.blogspot.com<http://iphylo.blogspot.com/>
> ORCID:  http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> Citations:  http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
>
> On 16 Oct 2015, at 16:33, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:
> j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> The page number must definitely be fixed. Otherwise it might become a
> nightmare, or at best a confusing pain, to give a meaningful citation to a
> nomenclatural act in on-line or even hard copy databases/catalogues,
> especially where longer publications are concerned. That is the absolute
> crux of the matter. If the text and other associated details remain the
> same then I have absolutely no problem. It is the change in page number
> between early pubs and final pubs that makes all the difference!
>
> John
>
> John Noyes
> Scientific Associate
> Department of Life Sciences
> Natural History Museum
> Cromwell Road
> South Kensington
> London SW7 5BD
> UK
> jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
> Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
> Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
>
> Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about
> chalcidoids and more):
> www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
> Laurent Raty
> Sent: 16 October 2015 16:21
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary
> electronic versions of taxonomic papers
>
> On 10/16/2015 03:47 PM, Scott Thomson wrote:
>
> In response to Laurent. I agree there seems to be no real and absolute
> final version if you count the adding of #tags as a part of the document.
>
> Well, I think that, ideally, it should (have) be(en) possible for the user
> to assess the integrity of a work distributed electronically. If a
> publication had been defined as a given distributed file, with a fixed
> sequence of bytes, this would (have) be(en) fully straightforward--all it
> requires is that a checksum value be released together with the original
> work. This is fairly standard practice for other types of files distributed
> through the Internet.
> Assessing the integrity of a "content and layout", if the file is allowed
> to change, is at best a nightmare.
>
> OTOH, I'm not sure there's a real, deep, qualitative difference between
> allowing file alteration as a result of a change in a download date and ip
> address added to the footer, and allowing file alteration as a result of a
> change in a page number added to the header.
> Thus if you *must* allow the file to change, is it really worth the effort
> to require that the page numbers be fixed...?
>
> L -
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