[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

Michael A. Ivie mivie at montana.edu
Fri Oct 16 18:50:32 CDT 2015


Exactly, basically, as in all things, if no one objects to a common 
sense violation, it can be treated as valid. Of course there are those 
who think scholarship is discovering these things and using them to make 
a change.

Mike

On 10/16/2015 4:33 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> Taking a case to the Commission is not a good way of solving minor problems, which tend to be too frequent, and would take too long to process, and the outcome would be kind of trivial. For example, if, as often happens, someone designates a lectotype without stating "here designated" (or equivalent), it technically isn't a valid designation. However, for all intents and purposes, it is valid. The specimen will still be stored as a lectotype in a collection, still be treated as the lectotype, and if anyone can be bothered re-designating it (hopefully not in a paper devoted to the task!), they should (except for very rare cases) designate the same specimen. So, what's the @#$!ing point??
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 17/10/15, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers
>   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   Received: Saturday, 17 October, 2015, 10:42 AM
>
>   I agree with Stephen on this, and our
>   current system for this is the
>   Commission.  The most important role of the Commission
>   on a day-to-day
>   basis is to allow that the Code be violated for just the
>   reasons Stephen
>   wants [Writing a new Code is recognized, but separate from
>   this issue].
>   The problem is that the process is too slow and uncertain as
>   it stands
>   now.  The Open Case section of the ICZN Website is
>   years behind
>   <http://iczn.org/content/list-open-cases> and we find
>   ourselves working
>   back in an exclusively paper-based system of reading and
>   commenting on
>   Cases.  The Applications Received is the same.  If
>   you know a Case
>   number that has appeared in the Bulletin, you may not find
>   it on the
>   Website. Case 3681 was published in the Bulletin (on paper)
>   in June
>   2015, but there is no way to see it or comment on it
>   electronically.
>   There are reasons for this, but the fact remains we have
>   gone back to a
>   pre-internet system of fixing problems.  It therefore
>   becomes up to the
>   author on his or her own initiative to  "adopt[ed] an
>   approach whereby
>   if there is a name which clearly is intended to apply to a
>   taxon, then
>   we can and should use it for that taxon, regardless of any
>   minor doubts
>   regarding whether or not the name 'really is' Code
>   compliant."
>
>   Rich's requirement of a whole new approach seems to cry out
>   even louder.
>
>   Mike
>
>
>   On 10/16/2015 3:07 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
>   > At the end of the day, we, as taxonomists, should be
>   primarily concerned with taxa, and only secondarily
>   concerned with their names (nomenclature). If one tries to
>   treat the Code along the lines of a legal document, or as an
>   algorithm, one will quickly end up tied up in contradictory
>   knots. Therefore, I have adopted an approach whereby if
>   there is a name which clearly is intended to apply to a
>   taxon, then we can and should use it for that taxon,
>   regardless of any minor doubts regarding whether or not the
>   name "really is" Code compliant.
>   >
>   > Stephen
>   >
>   > --------------------------------------------
>   > On Sat, 17/10/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
>   wrote:
>   >
>   >   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
>   availability of preliminary electronic    versions
>   of taxonomic papers
>   >   To: "'Roderic Page'" <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>,
>   taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >   Cc: "'John Noyes'" <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>
>   >   Received: Saturday, 17 October, 2015,
>   9:17 AM
>   >
>   >   <rant>
>   >
>   >   The answer has always been
>   >   obvious to me.  In the age of the
>   emerging internet (and
>   >   yes, it is very-much still emerging --
>   we've only just
>   >   begun to see the changes to
>   information exchange amongst
>   >   humans), we need to fundamentally
>   re-think how we establish
>   >   nomenclatural availability (at least
>   for as long as we
>   >   continue to use Linnean
>   nomenclature).
>   >
>   >   For 250 years, the practice of
>   taxonomy has
>   >   grown in a context where the primary
>   mechanism of
>   >   information exchange among humans was
>   ink symbols affixed to
>   >   "very thin slices of wood" (as Paul
>   Kirk likes to
>   >   say). For more than a hundred years,
>   the Codes of
>   >   nomenclature have been framed around
>   that fundamental
>   >   foundation (paper-printed
>   works).  Now, and in the
>   >   near-term future, the primary
>   mechanism of information
>   >   exchange is to transmit binary data
>   encoded in standardized
>   >   formats (UTF-8, JPEG, PDF, etc.) via
>   the internet.  The
>   >   Commission had to scramble to
>   accommodate this rapid
>   >   paradigm shift in the form of an
>   Amendment to the Code, but
>   >   that was really just a temporary
>   band-aid.
>   >
>   >   For the next edition of the
>   >   Code, I sincerely hope we can
>   fundamentally change the way
>   >   in which new names are established and
>   anchored to
>   >   biological organisms. Specifically,
>   rather than awkwardly
>   >   try to force-fit our legacy system
>   (ink-on-paper) into an
>   >   electronic form (e.g., PDFs, with
>   arbitrary and artificial
>   >   "pages"), we should re-engineer the
>   entire process
>   >   in such a way that we EMBRACE the
>   potential for electronic
>   >   information exchange and
>   management.  The simplest step in
>   >   that direction is to de-couple the
>   scientific notion of
>   >   "Publication" from the legal process
>   of
>   >   nomenclatural availability.  In
>   other words:
>   >   "registered=available".
>   >
>   >   The devil is in the details, of course
>   -- and
>   >   in this case, it's about what
>   "registered"
>   >   actually means.  I'm not talking
>   about what ZooBank
>   >   currently does.  I'm talking
>   about a brave new approach
>   >   that re-crafts the rules for
>   nomenclatural availability into
>   >   a form that can be translated into
>   pure logical rules that
>   >   computer algorithms can rigorously
>   enforce.  If done right,
>   >   Homonymy can be eliminated entirely,
>   Synonymy can likely be
>   >   reduced (and when it exists, much more
>   easily managed), and
>   >   we will NEVER AGAIN have to argue
>   about what constitutes a
>   >   "published work" in the sense of the
>   Code.  This
>   >   is just the tip of the iceberg for how
>   we can simultaneously
>   >   improve nomenclatural stability AND
>   increase access to
>   >   information through embracing the
>   electronic information
>   >   paradigm, rather than futzing around
>   the edges of it (as we
>   >   do now).
>   >
>   >   </rant>
>   >
>   >   Aloha,
>   >   Rich
>   >
>   >
>   >   >
>   >   -----Original Message-----
>   >   > From:
>   >   Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>   >   On Behalf
>   >   > Of Roderic Page
>   >   > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015
>   7:09 AM
>   >   > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >   > Cc: John Noyes
>   >   >
>   >   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
>   availability of
>   >   preliminary electronic
>   >   > versions of
>   >   taxonomic papers
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   Hopefully eBooks (similar to Kindle),
>   HTML, XML will never
>   >   be accepted as
>   >   > pubs under the Code
>   >   because they are dynamic.
>   >   >
>   >   > And that, in a nutshell, is why
>   some of us
>   >   despair at the current state of
>   >   >
>   >   taxonomy. Do we really wish that some
>   of the more innovative
>   >   means of
>   >   > publishing (never mind what
>   >   will come in the future) are never
>   accepted.
>   >   > Never, really?
>   >   >
>   >   > Regards
>   >   >
>   >   > Rod
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   ---------------------------------------------------------
>   >   > Roderic Page
>   >   >
>   >   Professor of Taxonomy
>   >   > Institute of
>   >   Biodiversity, Animal Health and
>   Comparative Medicine College
>   >   of
>   >   > Medical, Veterinary and Life
>   >   Sciences Graham Kerr Building
>   University of
>   >   > Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>   >   >
>   >   > Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
>   >   > Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
>   >   > Skype:  rdmpage
>   >   >
>   >   Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
>   >   > LinkedIn:  http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
>   >   > Twitter:  http://twitter.com/rdmpage
>   >   > Blog:  http://iphylo.blogspot.com
>   >   > ORCID:  http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
>   >   > Citations:
>   >   > http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
>   >   > ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > On 16 Oct 2015, at 17:48, John
>   Noyes
>   >   > <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>>
>   >   wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > Rod,
>   >   >
>   >   > What you are talking
>   >   about here (E-books etc.) are not
>   publications under
>   >   > the ICZN so they are not really
>   relevant.
>   >   We are only talking about e-pubs
>   >   > that
>   >   are accepted under the current Code.
>   Hopefully eBooks
>   >   (similar to
>   >   > Kindle), HTML, XML will
>   >   never be accepted as pubs under the
>   Code because
>   >   > they are dynamic.
>   >   >
>   >   > John
>   >   >
>   >   > John Noyes
>   >   > Scientific
>   >   Associate
>   >   > Department of Life
>   >   Sciences
>   >   > Natural History Museum
>   >   > Cromwell Road
>   >   > South
>   >   Kensington
>   >   > London SW7 5BD
>   >   > UK
>   >   > jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
>   >   > Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
>   >   > Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
>   >   >
>   >   > Universal
>   >   Chalcidoidea Database (everything you
>   wanted to know
>   >   about
>   >   > chalcidoids and more):
>   >   > www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
>   >   >
>   >   > From: Roderic Page
>   >   [mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk]
>   >   > Sent: 16 October 2015 17:40
>   >   > To:
>   >   > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   >   > Cc: Laurent Raty; John Noyes
>   >   > Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
>   Nomenclatural
>   >   availability of preliminary
>   electronic
>   >   >
>   >   versions of taxonomic papers
>   >   >
>   >   > Isn’t part of the issue here
>   that we are
>   >   applying one notion of locating text
>   >   >
>   >   (page number) to a situation where the
>   notion of “page”
>   >   may be fuzzy at
>   >   > best?
>   >   >
>   >   > Documents such as
>   >   web pages or eBooks either don’t
>   have pages, or the
>   >   > “page” may change depending
>   on font
>   >   size, device screen, etc.
>   >   >
>   >   > People who develop software to
>   annotate
>   >   web pages, eBook pages, etc.
>   >   > have
>   >   multiple ways of locating bits of
>   text, such as XPaths
>   >   [fragments of the
>   >   > HTML or XML that may
>   >   underly the document], text fragments
>   before and
>   >   > after, number of characters into
>   the
>   >   document, etc. These work, as anyone
>   >   >
>   >   highlighting text in the Kindle app or
>   iBooks, or indeed
>   >   Google Docs or Word
>   >   > will attest.
>   >   >
>   >   > The nature of
>   >   “publication" has changed, so we
>   need to embrace
>   >   more
>   >   > general notions of location in
>   >   documents. This is a problem others
>   have
>   >   > faced, and solved.
>   >   >
>   >
>   >   > Regards
>   >   >
>   >   > Rod
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   ---------------------------------------------------------
>   >   > Roderic Page
>   >   >
>   >   Professor of Taxonomy
>   >   > Institute of
>   >   Biodiversity, Animal Health and
>   Comparative Medicine College
>   >   of
>   >   > Medical, Veterinary and Life
>   >   Sciences Graham Kerr Building
>   University of
>   >   > Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>   >   >
>   >   > Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
>   >   > Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
>   >   > Skype:  rdmpage
>   >   >
>   >   Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
>   >   > LinkedIn:  http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
>   >   > Twitter:  http://twitter.com/rdmpage
>   >   > Blog:  http://iphylo.blogspot.com<http://iphylo.blogspot.com/>
>   >   > ORCID:  http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
>   >   > Citations:
>   >   > http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
>   >   > ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
>   >   >
>   >   > On 16 Oct 2015, at
>   >   16:33, John Noyes
>   >   > <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>>
>   >   wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > The page
>   >   number must definitely be fixed.
>   Otherwise it might become
>   >   a
>   >   > nightmare, or at best a
>   confusing
>   >   pain, to give a meaningful citation to
>   a
>   >   > nomenclatural act in on-line or
>   even hard
>   >   copy databases/catalogues,
>   >   > especially
>   >   where longer publications are
>   concerned. That is the
>   >   absolute crux
>   >   > of the matter. If the
>   >   text and other associated details
>   remain the same then I
>   >   > have absolutely no problem. It is
>   the
>   >   change in page number between early
>   >   >
>   >   pubs and final pubs that makes all the
>   difference!
>   >   >
>   >   > John
>   >   >
>   >   > John Noyes
>   >   > Scientific Associate
>   >   >
>   >   Department of Life Sciences
>   >   > Natural
>   >   History Museum
>   >   > Cromwell Road
>   >   > South Kensington
>   >   >
>   >   London SW7 5BD
>   >   > UK
>   >   >
>   >   jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
>   >   > Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
>   >   > Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
>   >   >
>   >   > Universal
>   >   Chalcidoidea Database (everything you
>   wanted to know
>   >   about
>   >   > chalcidoids and more):
>   >   > www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
>   >   >
>   >   > -----Original
>   >   Message-----
>   >   > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>   >   On Behalf
>   >   > Of Laurent Raty
>   >   > Sent: 16 October 2015 16:21
>   >   > To:
>   >   > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   >   > Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
>   Nomenclatural
>   >   availability of preliminary
>   electronic
>   >   >
>   >   versions of taxonomic papers
>   >   >
>   >   > On 10/16/2015 03:47 PM, Scott
>   Thomson
>   >   wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > In
>   >   response to Laurent. I agree there
>   seems to be no real and
>   >   absolute final
>   >   > version if you count the
>   >   adding of #tags as a part of the
>   document.
>   >   >
>   >   > Well, I think that,
>   >   ideally, it should (have) be(en)
>   possible for the user to
>   >   > assess the integrity of a work
>   distributed
>   >   electronically. If a publication had
>   >   >
>   >   been defined as a given distributed
>   file, with a fixed
>   >   sequence of bytes, this
>   >   > would (have)
>   >   be(en) fully straightforward--all it
>   requires is that a
>   >   checksum
>   >   > value be released together
>   >   with the original work. This is fairly
>   standard
>   >   > practice for other types of
>   files
>   >   distributed through the Internet.
>   >   >
>   >   Assessing the integrity of a "content
>   and layout",
>   >   if the file is allowed to
>   >   > change, is at
>   >   best a nightmare.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   OTOH, I'm not sure there's a real,
>   deep, qualitative
>   >   difference between
>   >   > allowing file
>   >   alteration as a result of a change in
>   a download date and
>   >   ip
>   >   > address added to the footer, and
>   >   allowing file alteration as a result
>   of a
>   >   > change in a page number added to
>   the
>   >   header.
>   >   > Thus if you *must* allow the
>   >   file to change, is it really worth the
>   effort to
>   >   > require that the page numbers be
>   >   fixed...?
>   >   >
>   >   > L -
>   >   >
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>   --
>   __________________________________________________
>
>   Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
>   Montana Entomology Collection
>   Marsh Labs, Room 50
>   1911 West Lincoln Street
>   NW corner of Lincoln and S.19th
>   Montana State University
>   Bozeman, MT 59717
>   USA
>
>   (406) 994-4610 (voice)
>   (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
>   mivie at montana.edu
>
>   _______________________________________________
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>
>   Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>
>

-- 
__________________________________________________

Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
NW corner of Lincoln and S.19th
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu




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