[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

John Noyes j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk
Mon Oct 19 04:34:07 CDT 2015


Rod,

I think you are very slightly misunderstanding or misrepresenting my comment. Firstly, I do not believe that the means of publishing have anything at all to do with the current state of taxonomy. That is almost completely down to lack of support from governments, etc. Secondly I am 100% behind publishing electronically but not behind the sort of “innovative” means like the ones that you seem to be advocating for publishing new taxonomic/nomenclatural acts. On the other hand they are brilliant for synthesising taxonomy (web sites such as the UCD, multi-entry keys, taxonomic summaries, etc.) so long as they do not present new taxonomic/nomenclatural acts.

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229

Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>

From: Roderic Page [mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk]
Sent: 16 October 2015 18:09
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Cc: Laurent Raty; John Noyes
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

Hopefully eBooks (similar to Kindle), HTML, XML will never be accepted as pubs under the Code because they are dynamic.

And that, in a nutshell, is why some of us despair at the current state of taxonomy. Do we really wish that some of the more innovative means of publishing (never mind what will come in the future) are never accepted. Never, really?

Regards

Rod

---------------------------------------------------------
Roderic Page
Professor of Taxonomy
Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
Graham Kerr Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK

Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
Skype:  rdmpage
Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
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Twitter:  http://twitter.com/rdmpage
Blog:  http://iphylo.blogspot.com
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Citations:  http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page

On 16 Oct 2015, at 17:48, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>> wrote:

Rod,

What you are talking about here (E-books etc.) are not publications under the ICZN so they are not really relevant. We are only talking about e-pubs that are accepted under the current Code. Hopefully eBooks (similar to Kindle), HTML, XML will never be accepted as pubs under the Code because they are dynamic.

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229

Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>

From: Roderic Page [mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk]
Sent: 16 October 2015 17:40
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Cc: Laurent Raty; John Noyes
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

Isn’t part of the issue here that we are applying one notion of locating text (page number) to a situation where the notion of “page” may be fuzzy at best?

Documents such as web pages or eBooks either don’t have pages, or the “page” may change depending on font size, device screen, etc.

People who develop software to annotate web pages, eBook pages, etc. have multiple ways of locating bits of text, such as XPaths [fragments of the HTML or XML that may underly the document], text fragments before and after, number of characters into the document, etc. These work, as anyone highlighting text in the Kindle app or iBooks, or indeed Google Docs or Word will attest.

The nature of “publication" has changed, so we need to embrace more general notions of location in documents. This is a problem others have faced, and solved.

Regards

Rod

---------------------------------------------------------
Roderic Page
Professor of Taxonomy
Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
Graham Kerr Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK

Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
Skype:  rdmpage
Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
LinkedIn:  http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/rdmpage
Blog:  http://iphylo.blogspot.com<http://iphylo.blogspot.com/>
ORCID:  http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
Citations:  http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page

On 16 Oct 2015, at 16:33, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>> wrote:

The page number must definitely be fixed. Otherwise it might become a nightmare, or at best a confusing pain, to give a meaningful citation to a nomenclatural act in on-line or even hard copy databases/catalogues, especially where longer publications are concerned. That is the absolute crux of the matter. If the text and other associated details remain the same then I have absolutely no problem. It is the change in page number between early pubs and final pubs that makes all the difference!

John

John Noyes
Scientific Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road
South Kensington
London SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229

Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>

-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Laurent Raty
Sent: 16 October 2015 16:21
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers

On 10/16/2015 03:47 PM, Scott Thomson wrote:


In response to Laurent. I agree there seems to be no real and absolute
final version if you count the adding of #tags as a part of the document.

Well, I think that, ideally, it should (have) be(en) possible for the user to assess the integrity of a work distributed electronically. If a publication had been defined as a given distributed file, with a fixed sequence of bytes, this would (have) be(en) fully straightforward--all it requires is that a checksum value be released together with the original work. This is fairly standard practice for other types of files distributed through the Internet.
Assessing the integrity of a "content and layout", if the file is allowed to change, is at best a nightmare.

OTOH, I'm not sure there's a real, deep, qualitative difference between allowing file alteration as a result of a change in a download date and ip address added to the footer, and allowing file alteration as a result of a change in a page number added to the header.
Thus if you *must* allow the file to change, is it really worth the effort to require that the page numbers be fixed...?

L -
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