[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 128, Issue 23

Antonio López Almirall cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu
Fri Dec 30 10:36:33 CST 2016


Unfortunately the situation is very complex. It is a set of pine forests 
with some ten hectares each, in the middle of a rain forest. We have studied 
these pine phenology for 22 years.
We know irregularities: exceptional trees having in any of the studied 
stands outside of time a few cones (5 or 6), male or female. But with that 
amount possible crosses are close to zero. On the other hand, the definition 
of species is clear: If there are no crosses are different species. This is 
a situation that exceeds my knowledge, my experience.
Antonio
P.D. P:D.Thank you for your response and aid.

-----Original Message-----
 From: taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 12:00:01 -0600
 Subject: Taxacom Digest, Vol 128, Issue 23


Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List

 When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into 
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 Today's Topics:

    1. Webinar on International Research Funding (Julie Palakovich Carr)
    2. How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
       (John Grehan)
    3. Re: How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
       (Stephen Thorpe)
    4. Re: How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
       (John Grehan)
    5. small *and* cheap circular microscope cover slips
       (Jorge A. Santiago-Blay)


 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Message: 1
 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 17:30:55 -0500
 From: Julie Palakovich Carr <jpalakovichcarr at aibs.org>
 To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: [Taxacom] Webinar on International Research Funding
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    <CABh=bax45ci8cPVzY-G4uFz9dHgoPJKd9pGCpYvu0ktoEQkXTw at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

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 2017 at 1 pm (Eastern).

 Register at
 
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 American Institute of Biological Sciences
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 Message: 2
 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 18:46:39 -0500
 From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
 To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological
    nonsense
 Message-ID:
    <CADN0ud2MotrVbRXca9RkkwWyc-NbmWZ=ZgK7crzMmn4oos5oEg at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 As most list members no doubt appreciate, one cannot use the geological
 ages of mountains or islands to uncritically make up maximum divergence
 dates. A good example of the biogeographic mess that is otherwise created
 (and remains a heavy burden on the scientific integrity of many New Zealand
 studies) is illustrated by Heads for *Maoricicada* in New Zealand as
 follows:


 “Buckley et al. (2001) calibrated the timeline for phylogeny in*
 Maoricicada* *campbelli* by assuming that *Maoricicada* was no older than
 the current alpine habitat (~ 5 Ma), as the genus is mainly alpine. This
 makes the assumption that taxa currently located in the alpine zone require
 alpine habitat, and this is not necessarily correct. In any case, *M.
 lindsayi* occurs at 0-500 m elevation, and *M. campbelli* itself is
 recorded from 10 to 1580 m (Buckley and Simon, 2007). In fact, most of the
 “alpine” species of *Maoricicada *are known from some localities below 
the
 alpine zone; 10 out of 14 have populations at less than 1000 m (around the
 level of the tree line) and several have populations in the lowlands
 (Dugdale and Fleming, 1978). These records suggest that *Maoricicada* and
 at least some of its diversity existed before the present alpine
 environment developed, surviving in lowland areas of open vegetation. The
 diverse ancestral complex would have been inherited by the mountains of the
 Kaikoura orogeny, as they rose. If this was the history, it would undermine
 a habitat calibration based on the age of the mountains.


 Based on the “mountain age” *habitat *calibration, Buckley et al. 
(2001)
 calculated that the earliest divergence within *M. campbelli* occurred at
 2.3 Ma, and they concluded: “We cannot reconcile the earliest date of
 divergence within M. campbelli with rifting along the Alpine Fault, a
 process that began to accelerate 10 million years ago.” Yet the young age
 they calculated for divergence in *M. campbelli* is based on the doubtful
 assumption they made about the age of the genus.


 Buckley et al. (2001) assumed that alpine taxa in Maoricicada could be no
 older than their alpine habitats. In a subsequent study of the genus,
 Buckley and Simon (2007) abandoned this method. Instead, though, they
 calibrated a molecular clock for *Maoricicada *by assuming that related
 cicadas, endemic on Norfolk Island and Kermadec Islands, could be no older
 than their current *islands*. But islands are just another habitat type
 within a region, as are mountains, leaf surfaces, or puddles. The existence
 of *prior* islands in the region means that calibration using island age,
 will, as will calibration using habitat age, give dates for clades that are
 too young by an indeterminate amount. Buckley and Simon (2007) found that
 *Maoricicada* diverged only in the mid-Miocene. This date is too young (by
 how much is not known), but at least it confirms that *Maoricicada* existed
 before the origin of high montane habitats.


 Hill et al. (2009) carried out further studies on *Maoricicada campbelli*
 and confirmed that the main break in *M. campbelli* is between a Central
 Otago clade and the rest. They wrote “we can only speculated as to what
 process initiated both the divergence of *M. campbelli *from the rest of
 Maoricicada at <2.6 Ma, and the main *M. campbelli* split at 1.5-2.1 Ma”
 (p. 13). As discussed, the “island age” calibration (from Buckley and
 Simon, 2007) that these dates depend on is flawed.



 The authors based their conclusions on these dates, but they did not refer
 to major geological features at the boundaries, such as the Moonlight
 tectonic zone, and instead suggested that increased sedimentation of river
 gravel caused by rising mountains produced habitat “into which *M.
 campbelli *evolved” (p. 14). The new sedimentation and new habitat might
 explain local range expansion or contraction in the group during the
 Kaikoura orogeny, but they do not account for the *location* of the mean
 break in the species.”



  John Grehan


 ------------------------------

 Message: 3
 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 03:02:34 +0000 (UTC)
 From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, John Grehan
    <calabar.john at gmail.com>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological
    nonsense
 Message-ID: <563150603.3433172.1482980554275 at mail.yahoo.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 One certainly cannot uncritically accept anything by those authors! Mind 
you, one should not uncritically accept anything by any authors!

 Stephen

 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 29/12/16, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:

  Subject: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
  To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
  Received: Thursday, 29 December, 2016, 12:46 PM
  
  As most list members no doubt
  appreciate, one cannot use the geological
  ages of mountains or islands to uncritically make up maximum
  divergence
  dates. A good example of the biogeographic mess that is
  otherwise created
  (and remains a heavy burden on the scientific integrity of
  many New Zealand
  studies) is illustrated by Heads for *Maoricicada* in New
  Zealand as
  follows:
  
  
  “Buckley et al. (2001) calibrated the timeline for
  phylogeny in*
  Maoricicada* *campbelli* by assuming that *Maoricicada* was
  no older than
  the current alpine habitat (~ 5 Ma), as the genus is mainly
  alpine. This
  makes the assumption that taxa currently located in the
  alpine zone require
  alpine habitat, and this is not necessarily correct. In any
  case, *M.
  lindsayi* occurs at 0-500 m elevation, and *M. campbelli*
  itself is
  recorded from 10 to 1580 m (Buckley and Simon, 2007). In
  fact, most of the
  “alpine” species of *Maoricicada *are known from some
  localities below the
  alpine zone; 10 out of 14 have populations at less than 1000
  m (around the
  level of the tree line) and several have populations in the
  lowlands
  (Dugdale and Fleming, 1978). These records suggest that
  *Maoricicada* and
  at least some of its diversity existed before the present
  alpine
  environment developed, surviving in lowland areas of open
  vegetation. The
  diverse ancestral complex would have been inherited by the
  mountains of the
  Kaikoura orogeny, as they rose. If this was the history, it
  would undermine
  a habitat calibration based on the age of the mountains.
  
  
  Based on the “mountain age” *habitat *calibration,
  Buckley et al. (2001)
  calculated that the earliest divergence within *M.
  campbelli* occurred at
  2.3 Ma, and they concluded: “We cannot reconcile the
  earliest date of
  divergence within M. campbelli with rifting along the Alpine
  Fault, a
  process that began to accelerate 10 million years ago.”
  Yet the young age
  they calculated for divergence in *M. campbelli* is based on
  the doubtful
  assumption they made about the age of the genus.
  
  
  Buckley et al. (2001) assumed that alpine taxa in
  Maoricicada could be no
  older than their alpine habitats. In a subsequent study of
  the genus,
  Buckley and Simon (2007) abandoned this method. Instead,
  though, they
  calibrated a molecular clock for *Maoricicada *by assuming
  that related
  cicadas, endemic on Norfolk Island and Kermadec Islands,
  could be no older
  than their current *islands*. But islands are just another
  habitat type
  within a region, as are mountains, leaf surfaces, or
  puddles. The existence
  of *prior* islands in the region means that calibration
  using island age,
  will, as will calibration using habitat age, give dates for
  clades that are
  too young by an indeterminate amount. Buckley and Simon
  (2007) found that
  *Maoricicada* diverged only in the mid-Miocene. This date is
  too young (by
  how much is not known), but at least it confirms that
  *Maoricicada* existed
  before the origin of high montane habitats.
  
  
  Hill et al. (2009) carried out further studies on
  *Maoricicada campbelli*
  and confirmed that the main break in *M. campbelli* is
  between a Central
  Otago clade and the rest. They wrote “we can only
  speculated as to what
  process initiated both the divergence of *M. campbelli *from
  the rest of
  Maoricicada at <2.6 Ma, and the main *M. campbelli* split
  at 1.5-2.1 Ma”
  (p. 13). As discussed, the “island age” calibration
  (from Buckley and
  Simon, 2007) that these dates depend on is flawed.
  
  
  
  The authors based their conclusions on these dates, but they
  did not refer
  to major geological features at the boundaries, such as the
  Moonlight
  tectonic zone, and instead suggested that increased
  sedimentation of river
  gravel caused by rising mountains produced habitat “into
  which *M.
  campbelli *evolved” (p. 14). The new sedimentation and new
  habitat might
  explain local range expansion or contraction in the group
  during the
  Kaikoura orogeny, but they do not account for the *location*
  of the mean
  break in the species.”
  
  
  
   John Grehan
  _______________________________________________
  Taxacom Mailing List
  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: 
http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
  
  Injecting Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
  


 ------------------------------

 Message: 4
 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 23:09:51 -0500
 From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
 To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological
    nonsense
 Message-ID:
    <CADN0ud3UW203vshSYQA8LWo-PM0c3u0i9_1TyZRPySsokmb-cg at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Agree absolutely - to the general point that is (I have no judgement to
 pass on the authors in particular). The uncritical, pervasive and widely
 continuing misrepresentation of minimal divergence estimates as maximal is
 the underlying problem here. The Maoricicada example just provides a good
 illustration of what results from bad (molecular underestimate) science.

 John Grehan

 On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Stephen Thorpe 
<stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
 > wrote:

 > One certainly cannot uncritically accept anything by those authors! Mind
 > you, one should not uncritically accept anything by any authors!
 >
 > Stephen
 >
 > --------------------------------------------
 > On Thu, 29/12/16, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
 >
 >  Subject: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
 >  To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >  Received: Thursday, 29 December, 2016, 12:46 PM
 >
 >  As most list members no doubt
 >  appreciate, one cannot use the geological
 >  ages of mountains or islands to uncritically make up maximum
 >  divergence
 >  dates. A good example of the biogeographic mess that is
 >  otherwise created
 >  (and remains a heavy burden on the scientific integrity of
 >  many New Zealand
 >  studies) is illustrated by Heads for *Maoricicada* in New
 >  Zealand as
 >  follows:
 >
 >
 >  “Buckley et al. (2001) calibrated the timeline for
 >  phylogeny in*
 >  Maoricicada* *campbelli* by assuming that *Maoricicada* was
 >  no older than
 >  the current alpine habitat (~ 5 Ma), as the genus is mainly
 >  alpine. This
 >  makes the assumption that taxa currently located in the
 >  alpine zone require
 >  alpine habitat, and this is not necessarily correct. In any
 >  case, *M.
 >  lindsayi* occurs at 0-500 m elevation, and *M. campbelli*
 >  itself is
 >  recorded from 10 to 1580 m (Buckley and Simon, 2007). In
 >  fact, most of the
 >  “alpine” species of *Maoricicada *are known from some
 >  localities below the
 >  alpine zone; 10 out of 14 have populations at less than 1000
 >  m (around the
 >  level of the tree line) and several have populations in the
 >  lowlands
 >  (Dugdale and Fleming, 1978). These records suggest that
 >  *Maoricicada* and
 >  at least some of its diversity existed before the present
 >  alpine
 >  environment developed, surviving in lowland areas of open
 >  vegetation. The
 >  diverse ancestral complex would have been inherited by the
 >  mountains of the
 >  Kaikoura orogeny, as they rose. If this was the history, it
 >  would undermine
 >  a habitat calibration based on the age of the mountains.
 >
 >
 >  Based on the “mountain age” *habitat *calibration,
 >  Buckley et al. (2001)
 >  calculated that the earliest divergence within *M.
 >  campbelli* occurred at
 >  2.3 Ma, and they concluded: “We cannot reconcile the
 >  earliest date of
 >  divergence within M. campbelli with rifting along the Alpine
 >  Fault, a
 >  process that began to accelerate 10 million years ago.”
 >  Yet the young age
 >  they calculated for divergence in *M. campbelli* is based on
 >  the doubtful
 >  assumption they made about the age of the genus.
 >
 >
 >  Buckley et al. (2001) assumed that alpine taxa in
 >  Maoricicada could be no
 >  older than their alpine habitats. In a subsequent study of
 >  the genus,
 >  Buckley and Simon (2007) abandoned this method. Instead,
 >  though, they
 >  calibrated a molecular clock for *Maoricicada *by assuming
 >  that related
 >  cicadas, endemic on Norfolk Island and Kermadec Islands,
 >  could be no older
 >  than their current *islands*. But islands are just another
 >  habitat type
 >  within a region, as are mountains, leaf surfaces, or
 >  puddles. The existence
 >  of *prior* islands in the region means that calibration
 >  using island age,
 >  will, as will calibration using habitat age, give dates for
 >  clades that are
 >  too young by an indeterminate amount. Buckley and Simon
 >  (2007) found that
 >  *Maoricicada* diverged only in the mid-Miocene. This date is
 >  too young (by
 >  how much is not known), but at least it confirms that
 >  *Maoricicada* existed
 >  before the origin of high montane habitats.
 >
 >
 >  Hill et al. (2009) carried out further studies on
 >  *Maoricicada campbelli*
 >  and confirmed that the main break in *M. campbelli* is
 >  between a Central
 >  Otago clade and the rest. They wrote “we can only
 >  speculated as to what
 >  process initiated both the divergence of *M. campbelli *from
 >  the rest of
 >  Maoricicada at <2.6 Ma, and the main *M. campbelli* split
 >  at 1.5-2.1 Ma”
 >  (p. 13). As discussed, the “island age” calibration
 >  (from Buckley and
 >  Simon, 2007) that these dates depend on is flawed.
 >
 >
 >
 >  The authors based their conclusions on these dates, but they
 >  did not refer
 >  to major geological features at the boundaries, such as the
 >  Moonlight
 >  tectonic zone, and instead suggested that increased
 >  sedimentation of river
 >  gravel caused by rising mountains produced habitat “into
 >  which *M.
 >  campbelli *evolved” (p. 14). The new sedimentation and new
 >  habitat might
 >  explain local range expansion or contraction in the group
 >  during the
 >  Kaikoura orogeny, but they do not account for the *location*
 >  of the mean
 >  break in the species.”
 >
 >
 >
 >   John Grehan
 >  _______________________________________________
 >  Taxacom Mailing List
 >  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 >  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 > http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >  Injecting Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
 >
 >


 ------------------------------

 Message: 5
 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 06:58:45 -0500
 From: "Jorge A. Santiago-Blay" <blayjorge at gmail.com>
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Subject: [Taxacom] small *and* cheap circular microscope cover slips
 Message-ID:
    <CAGBdDuDd99qyj4k8U-dr74cyVWEqcxjNDCjUGSvPZ0qGS_DK5Q at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 small *and* cheap circular microscope cover slips


 Dear Colleagues:



 I am looking for a reliable supplier of small (say, 12 mm or less) *and*
 cheap circular microscope cover slips. Note: I have already contacted
 suppliers available on the web but wish to have a larger choice. If you
 have recommendations, please email me directly,


 blayjorge at gmail.com


 Apologies for potential duplicate emails.



 Happy 2017, in gratefulness,



 Jorge

 Jorge A. Santiago-Blay, PhD
 blaypublishers.com

 1. Positive experiences for authors of papers published in *LEB*
 http://blaypublishers.com/testimonials/ 
[http://blaypublishers.com/testimonials/]

 2. Free examples of papers published in *LEB*:
 http://blaypublishers.com/category/previous-issues/ 
[http://blaypublishers.com/category/previous-issues/].

 3. *Guidelines for Authors* and page charges of *LEB*:
 http://blaypublishers.com/archives/ [http://blaypublishers.com/archives/] 
*.*

 4. Want to subscribe to *LEB*? http://blaypublishers.com/subscriptions/ 
[http://blaypublishers.com/subscriptions/]


 http://blayjorge.wordpress.com/ [http://blayjorge.wordpress.com/]
 http://paleobiology.si.edu/staff/individuals/santiagoblay.cfm 
[http://paleobiology.si.edu/staff/individuals/santiagoblay.cfm]


 ------------------------------

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 ------------------------------

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