[Taxacom] Literature request

Michael A. Ivie mivie at montana.edu
Thu Aug 31 19:13:18 CDT 2017


Dear Stephen,

Sure it is theft, and I bet your mother would agree with me (I bet your 
mother is/was a very nice, morally upright lady!). Taking something that 
is not yours is theft.  It does not matter where it is. If it belongs to 
someone else, and you don't have their permission to take it, and you 
take it anyway, it is theft.  Very, very simple, a 5 year old can handle 
this.

And, selling something for an outrageous amount is not theft, com'on 
Stephen!  That argument is beneath you.  Is it ok to steal a Versace bag 
because they sell for a stupidly high price?  Of course not.

Mike


On 8/31/2017 6:05 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> On the other hand, I would say that theft is publishers selling scientific literature for an exorbitant cost! It may be theft to upload copyright protected material, but is it theft to download it from a site that has illegally uploaded it, particularly if only for fair use/noncommercial use? So, I guess, Mike, it really ISN'T that simple!
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 1/9/17, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Literature request
>   To: "Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira Dittrich" <vinarc at gmail.com>, "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   Received: Friday, 1 September, 2017, 11:20 AM
>   
>   Dear Vinicius,
>   
>   No, you have not understood
>   me.  To me theft is wrong.  If there is a
>   law against theft of biodiversity, to violate
>   it is theft and is
>   wrong.   If there is
>   property that is not mine, and I take it, it is
>   theft and it is wrong.  Theft of intellectual
>   property is as wrong as
>   theft of
>   biodiversity or theft of a car. Downloading an open access
>   
>   paper is not theft, it is not wrong.  If
>   your papers are open access,
>   wonderful,
>   thank you, and anyone who takes them are morally correct.
>   If
>   you write a book, and it is for sale and
>   covered by copyright, and
>   someone makes a
>   PDF and distributes it without your permission it is
>   theft. This is really very simple.
>   
>   Mike
>   
>   
>   On 8/31/2017 5:09 PM,
>   Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira Dittrich wrote:
>   >
>   >    Dear Michael,
>   >
>   >    I think your
>   point of view is not wrong, but is not right also. To
>   > me, steal intellectual property of others
>   is to publish anything that
>   > is not
>   mine, but I just put my name there as the author. Copying
>   
>   > anything else for personal use is not
>   steal (the definition of piracy)
>   > –
>   BTW, I wish all my papers and books and everything else
>   could be
>   > copied by any person, without
>   any cost: science is not something to
>   >
>   profit, just as education is not… but many will disagree,
>   for obvious
>   > reasons. Regarding
>   specimens carried out from Brazil, for many and
>   > many years this was the rule, and if we
>   want to see those specimens,
>   > we have
>   to travel a lot and spend too much money for this, because
>   
>   > those specimens will never return to
>   Brazil. So, your reasoning seems
>   > to
>   be: steal part of the biodiversity is OK, but copying a
>   chapter of
>   > a book no. Or maybe
>   I've not understood what you wrote.
>   >
>   >    Best regard,
>   >
>   >    Vinícius
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   2017-08-31 19:30 GMT-03:00 Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu
>   
>   > <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>>:
>   >
>   >     I note your
>   irony Geoff,
>   >
>   >
>   It always amazes me when people are so cavalier about
>   simple
>   >     theft. I want it, I
>   don't want to pay for it, he has it, I will
>   >     steal it.  Poor me. No moral
>   compunction at all.
>   >
>   >     Particularly when a country is so
>   fanatical about anyone stealing
>   >
>   their biodiversity specimens, but are completely OK with
>   their
>   >     scientists stealing
>   intellectual property of others.  Brazil is an
>   >     example, tons of stolen literature
>   available there, but try taking
>   >     a
>   beetle out without "paying" for it,  that means
>   jail!  Just an
>   >     example, there
>   are more countries like this than countries not
>   >     like this.  Some you can steal both
>   specimens and books.
>   >
>   >     Grumpy Mike
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >     On 8/31/2017 4:06 PM, Geoff Read
>   wrote:
>   >
>   >
>   Well it's a modernish book in print available from
>   the
>   >         publisher, or
>   >         secondhand for a small sum.
>   >
>   >         You mean
>   perhaps where can you get a pirated pdf?
>   >
>   >         Try
>   Google - a dodgy Russian site has it.
>   >
>   >         Geoff
>   >
>   >
>   >         On Fri, September 1, 2017 3:42
>   am, Luis POPA wrote:
>   >
>   >             Dear Taxacomers,
>   >             Does anyone know a place
>   where I can find an electronic
>   >
>          version of the
>   >
>      book bellow? Actually I'm interested only in the
>   chapter
>   >             on random
>   >             genetic drift (pages
>   88-98).
>   >
>   >
>        Hartl, D.L. 2000. A Primer of Population Genetics
>   (3rd
>   >             ed.). Sinauer
>   >             Associates, Sunderland,
>   MA
>   >
>   >
>      Thank you very much.
>   >
>      Best regards,
>   >
>   luis
>   >
>   >
>   >             --
>   >             Luis Popa, Ph.D.
>   >             Senior Scientist
>   >             General Director
>   >             "Grigore
>   Antipa" National Museum of Natural History
>   >             Sos. Kiseleff No. 1
>   >             Bucharest  011341
>   >             ROMANIA
>   >             Tel: 004 021 312 88
>   26
>   >             Fax: 004 021 312
>   88 63
>   >             Mobile: 004
>   0757 096 442
>   >
>   >
>   >         --
>   >
>        Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>   >
>      Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>   >
>   gread at actrix.gen.nz
>   <mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
>   >
>   >
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>   >
>   >         Nurturing
>   Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
>   >         1987-2017.
>   >
>   >
>   >     --
>   >
>   __________________________________________________
>   >
>   >     Michael A.
>   Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>   >
>   >     NOTE: two addresses with different
>   Zip Codes depending on carriers
>   >
>   >     US Post Office Address:
>   >     Montana Entomology Collection
>   >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
>   >     PO Box 173145
>   >
>      Montana State University
>   >
>   Bozeman, MT 59717
>   >     USA
>   >
>   >     UPS, FedEx, DHL
>   Address:
>   >     Montana Entomology
>   Collection
>   >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
>   >     1911 West Lincoln Street
>   >     Montana State University
>   >     Bozeman, MT 59718
>   >     USA
>   >
>   >
>   >     (406) 994-4610
>   <tel:%28406%29%20994-4610> (voice)
>   >     (406) 994-6029
>   <tel:%28406%29%20994-6029> (FAX)
>   >     mivie at montana.edu
>   <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   _______________________________________________
>   >     Taxacom Mailing List
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>   >     taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >     <mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   >
>   >     Nurturing
>   Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
>   >     1987-2017.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --
>   > Prof. Dr. Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira
>   Dittrich
>   > Chefe do Departamento de
>   Botânica - ICB - UFJF
>   > Curador do
>   Herbário CESJ
>   > Instituto de Ciências
>   Biológicas, Universidade Federal de Juiz de Fora
>   > Rua José Lourenço Kelmer, s/n - Campus
>   Universitário, Bairro São Pedro
>   > Juiz
>   de Fora, MG, Brazil - CEP 36036-900
>   >
>   Phone: 55 (32) 2102-3224
>   > Panoramio
>   <http://www.panoramio.com/user/vina>
>   > Pteridófitas - diversidade e
>   conservação
>   > <http://www.icb.ufmg.br/pteridofitas/>
>   > Herbário CESJ <http://www.ufjf.br/herbario/>
>   > Academia.edu <http://ufjf-br.academia.edu/Vin%C3%ADciusDittrich>
>   > Researchgate
>   > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vinicius_Dittrich2?ev=prf_highl>
>   > Flickr <http://www.flickr.com/photos/60085925@N02/>
>   > Fototeca Vinícius Dittrich
>   > <http://splink.cria.org.br/manager/detail?setlang=pt&resource=FVD>
>   > Skype: vinacrt
>   
>   --
>   __________________________________________________
>   
>   Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
>   F.R.E.S.
>   
>   NOTE: two
>   addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>   
>   US Post Office Address:
>   Montana Entomology Collection
>   Marsh Labs, Room 50
>   PO Box
>   173145
>   Montana State University
>   Bozeman, MT 59717
>   USA
>   
>   UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
>   Montana Entomology Collection
>   Marsh Labs, Room 50
>   1911 West
>   Lincoln Street
>   Montana State University
>   Bozeman, MT 59718
>   USA
>   
>   
>   (406)
>   994-4610 (voice)
>   (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
>   mivie at montana.edu
>   
>   _______________________________________________
>   Taxacom Mailing List
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>   The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
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>   
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>   
>   Nurturing Nuance while
>   Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>   
> .
>

-- 
__________________________________________________

Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA


(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu



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