[Taxacom] I have Denisovan genes (was: Species Definition?)

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Sun May 28 11:33:52 CDT 2017


Why not email the contact author Afonnikov and ask which paper they refer
to includes a formal description? Interesting that their is no author name
after the trinomial. I sort of thought that author names are pretty much
required by most journals for species or sub sp entities. If there is no
published description for the name (which I understand should include
reference to the type specimen repository) does the name denisova become a
nomen nudum?

John Grehan

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:

>      I've been looking for a formal naming for Homo sapiens denisova (as a
> species or as a subspecies), and not having any luck finding one.  Below is
> a weblink to a 2015 paper which uses it as if it was a formally named
> taxon.  I have also seen it often spelled denisovensis, which might be a
> better name.
>
>                     -------------Ken
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4686780/
> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4686780/>
> The evolution of Homo sapiens denisova and Homo sapiens ...
> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4686780/>
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> The evolution of Homo sapiens denisova and Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
> miRNA targeting genes in the prenatal and postnatal brain
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 27, 2017 8:18 PM
> *To:* Kenneth Kinman
> *Cc:* taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Taxacom] I have Denisovan genes (was: Species Definition?)
>
> Perhaps it is not so much a case of "should" or should not, but whether
> those in the game decide to or not. If trinomials help bring clarity,
> perhaps so. If not, perhaps it does not matter either way.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>      I obviously believe that we need to use trinomials a lot more.  Thus
>> my classifications of hominids reduce a lot of named "species" into broader
>> species which clearly interbred (using trinomials).  But I still do not
>> advocate lumping to the extent that some have proposed (such as dumping all
>> Homo habilis subspecies into Homo erectus).
>>
>>
>>
>>      This includes Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.  It is now quite clear
>> that our ancestors coming out of Africa interbred with Neanderthals, and
>> that all of their descendants (excluding most sub-Saharan humans with
>> virtually no reproductive contact) still carry 2-4% of Neanderthal genes.
>> Our early Eurasian ancestors probably carried a much higher percentage of
>> such genes, but it has declined over time.
>>
>>
>>      However, we need to address the Denisovans, considered distinct from
>> Neanderthals, but still closely related to them.  Denisovans have not been
>> formally described as a separate taxon as far I know, but the question is
>> whether they should, or whether they should be classified as Homo sapiens
>> neanderthalensis.
>>
>>
>>       Some populations in Oceania (such as in Papuan New Guinea) still
>> have 4 to 6% Denisovan DNA, but such genes are widespread at lower levels
>> among Eurasians (and their descendants in the New World).  My own autosomal
>> DNA show 1.43% "Oceanian" which is presumably Denisovan.
>>
>>
>>       As far I know skeletal remains of Denisovans are still scant (one
>> finger bone and two molars), and they are from Denisova Cave (where
>> Neanderthal remains have also been found).  And yet their DNA is now fairly
>> well known.   So should a formal trinomial name be formally proposed for
>> Denisovans?  I have seen a couple of papers where the trinomial Homo
>> sapiens denisova has been used, but has it been formally described in a way
>> that is Code compliant?
>>
>>                         ----------------Ken
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of Richard
>> Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 1:31 PM
>> To: 'Hannu Saarenmaa'; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Species Definition?
>>
>> > So can we please just have numbers, or something for IDs of published
>> and not
>> > yet named, suggested taxonomic concepts, so that we can speak of them?
>>
>> Wouldn't that be nice!
>>
>> > In real world there are no species. Imagine that.
>>
>> No imagining necessary.  That's the world I live in.  But it is still
>> helpful to label groups of things in nature in a way that facilitates
>> communication -- whether it be islands (or is it an islet?), mountains (or
>> is it a hill?), or species (or is it a subspecies?)
>>
>> Aloha,
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
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