[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 137, Issue 13

Guilherme Garbino gstgarbino at gmail.com
Mon Sep 18 12:09:48 CDT 2017


Dear all,

Thank you very much for the answers.

The reason I think the type species is a nomen nudum is because it only
appears in a species list under the generic name. I could find no other
mention to this species in the text or subsequent publications.

You have helped me a lot.

All the best,

2017-09-18 14:00 GMT-03:00 <taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Question about nomina nuda as type species (Guilherme Garbino)
>    2. Re: Question about nomina nuda as type species (Stephen Thorpe)
>    3. Re: Question about nomina nuda as type species (Guilherme Garbino)
>    4. Re: Question about nomina nuda as type species (igor pavlinov)
>    5. Re: Question about nomina nuda as type species (Laurent Raty)
>    6. Re: Question about nomina nuda as type species (Doug Yanega)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 22:44:41 -0300
> From: Guilherme Garbino <gstgarbino at gmail.com>
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKZ_d6rQnKTndQ07eZmUHWEJzFCx4yKuJXXfUPn1HgQzPgaTSw at mail.gmail.
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I have a short question on nomina nuda as type species.
>
> If a subsequent author chose as type species of a genus a nomen nudum, can
> another author invalidate this selection and chosse a valid taxon instead?
> He could have chosen a valid name but chose the nomen nudum following the
> recommendation to choose the first species in the list under the genus.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:56:45 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, Guilherme Garbino
>         <gstgarbino at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
> Message-ID: <1689584749.3852617.1505699805740 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Assuming that we are talking ZOOLOGICAL nomenclature, a type species
> cannot be a nomen nudum, so in such cases, there is no type species as yet
> validly designated.
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 18/9/17, Guilherme Garbino <gstgarbino at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
>  To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>  Received: Monday, 18 September, 2017, 1:44 PM
>
>  Dear colleagues,
>
>  I have a short question on nomina nuda
>  as type species.
>
>  If a subsequent author chose as type
>  species of a genus a nomen nudum, can
>  another author invalidate this
>  selection and chosse a valid taxon instead?
>  He could have chosen a valid name but
>  chose the nomen nudum following the
>  recommendation to choose the first
>  species in the list under the genus.
>
>  Thanks!
>  _______________________________________________
>  Taxacom Mailing List
>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
>  Send Taxacom mailing list submissions
>  to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
>  Web, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>  You can reach the person managing the
>  list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
>  Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting
>  Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 08:33:42 -0300
> From: Guilherme Garbino <gstgarbino at gmail.com>
> Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKZ_d6rYi5yO68pikuOst2Eig9QAUAoF-uWmC_4DaeKCK2QXsw at mail.gmail.
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Thank you for the answers.
>
> Stephen, thank you for your clarirfication. Yes, I am talking about
> ZOOLOGICAL nomenclature. But could not find this specific case in the Code.
> I agree with you that the type designation in this case cannot be sustained
> and a new type species must be selected.
>
> David, thanks for the link. It however does not contemplate the situation
> where a nomen nudum is selected at type for a genus.
>
> All the best,
>
> 2017-09-18 6:31 GMT-03:00 David Patterson <patterson.david.joseph at gmail.
> com>
> :
>
> > see
> >
> > http://iczn.org/content/what-nomen-nudum
> >
> > David
> >
> > David J. Patterson
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Guilherme Garbino <
> gstgarbino at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear colleagues,
> >>
> >> I have a short question on nomina nuda as type species.
> >>
> >> If a subsequent author chose as type species of a genus a nomen nudum,
> can
> >> another author invalidate this selection and chosse a valid taxon
> instead?
> >> He could have chosen a valid name but chose the nomen nudum following
> the
> >> recommendation to choose the first species in the list under the genus.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Taxacom Mailing List
> >> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>
> >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
> >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >>
> >> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
> 1987-2017.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:54:22 +0300
> From: igor pavlinov <ipvl2008 at mail.ru>
> To: Guilherme Garbino <gstgarbino at gmail.com>
> Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
> Message-ID: <1505735662.334526041 at f420.i.mail.ru>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Concerning valid type species fixation for the genus-group taxon, please
> consult Art.  67.2.1. In the meaning of the Code the "originally included
> nominal species" comprise only those included in the newly established
> nominal genus or subgenus, having been  cited in the original publication
> by  an available name (including citation by an incorrect spelling [ Art.
> 67.6 ]) of a species or subspecies (see Articles  45.6  and  68.2 ), or
> having been cited there as the deliberate application of a previous
> misidentification (see Articles  11.10 ,  67.13  and  69.2.4 ).
> http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted-sites/iczn/code/?article=31
>
> So, if a species is designated by unavailable name, and this name is cited
> in the original publication of a new genus, it cannot be used as a type to
> define this genus genus.
>
> IP
> - - -
> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> 125009 Moscow
> Russia
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
>
> >Понедельник, 18 сентября 2017, 14:33 +03:00 от Guilherme Garbino <
> gstgarbino at gmail.com>:
> >
> >Dear colleagues,
> >
> >Thank you for the answers.
> >
> >Stephen, thank you for your clarirfication. Yes, I am talking about
> >ZOOLOGICAL nomenclature. But could not find this specific case in the
> Code.
> >I agree with you that the type designation in this case cannot be
> sustained
> >and a new type species must be selected.
> >
> >David, thanks for the link. It however does not contemplate the situation
> >where a nomen nudum is selected at type for a genus.
> >
> >All the best,
> >
> >2017-09-18 6:31 GMT-03:00 David Patterson < patterson.david.joseph at gmail.
> com >
> >:
> >
> >> see
> >>
> >>  http://iczn.org/content/what-nomen-nudum
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> David J. Patterson
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Guilherme Garbino <
> gstgarbino at gmail.com >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear colleagues,
> >>>
> >>> I have a short question on nomina nuda as type species.
> >>>
> >>> If a subsequent author chose as type species of a genus a nomen nudum,
> can
> >>> another author invalidate this selection and chosse a valid taxon
> instead?
> >>> He could have chosen a valid name but chose the nomen nudum following
> the
> >>> recommendation to choose the first species in the list under the genus.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> >>>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >>>  http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>>
> >>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to  taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
> >>>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>>  taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >>>
> >>> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
> 1987-2017.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Taxacom Mailing List
> >Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> >http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> >Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to  taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >
> >Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:40:27 +0200
> From: Laurent Raty <l.raty at skynet.be>
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
> Message-ID: <9248d5e2-452e-4a16-87f9-5cf2905880f6 at skynet.be>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Well, it stems more or less directly from the nature of type species as
> defined in the Code:
> - 67.1: "The name-bearing type of a nominal genus or subgenus is a
> nominal species".
> - Glossary: "nominal taxon - A concept of a taxon which is denoted by an
> available name [...]".
> ...and from the definition of "nomen nudum":
> - Glossary: "a name that, if published before 1931, fails to conform to
> Article 12; or, if published after 1930, fails to conform to Article 13.
> A nomen nudum is not an available name [...]".
>
> Something denoted by a nomen nudum is not (as per the definition of that
> term) denoted by an available name, thus cannot (as per the definition
> of that term) be a nominal species, thus is not (as per 67.1) of a
> nature compatible with being a type species.
>
> Perhaps you could explain what made the name a nomen nudum in your case?
>
> Cheers, Laurent -
>
>
>
> On 09/18/2017 01:33 PM, Guilherme Garbino wrote:
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > Thank you for the answers.
> >
> > Stephen, thank you for your clarirfication. Yes, I am talking about
> > ZOOLOGICAL nomenclature. But could not find this specific case in the
> Code.
> > I agree with you that the type designation in this case cannot be
> sustained
> > and a new type species must be selected.
> >
> > David, thanks for the link. It however does not contemplate the situation
> > where a nomen nudum is selected at type for a genus.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > 2017-09-18 6:31 GMT-03:00 David Patterson <patterson.david.joseph at gmail.
> com>
> > :
> >
> >> see
> >>
> >> http://iczn.org/content/what-nomen-nudum
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> David J. Patterson
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Guilherme Garbino <
> gstgarbino at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear colleagues,
> >>>
> >>> I have a short question on nomina nuda as type species.
> >>>
> >>> If a subsequent author chose as type species of a genus a nomen nudum,
> can
> >>> another author invalidate this selection and chosse a valid taxon
> instead?
> >>> He could have chosen a valid name but chose the nomen nudum following
> the
> >>> recommendation to choose the first species in the list under the genus.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> >>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>>
> >>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
> >>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >>>
> >>> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
> 1987-2017.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >
> > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 08:46:51 -0700
> From: Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Question about nomina nuda as type species
> Message-ID: <10083b1e-609d-d618-fb4f-2d7e914b1bf2 at ucr.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> As noted by Laurent, only available names are eligible to be designated
> as type species. In this case, unless a later author came along and made
> a valid type species designation, the genus in question still has no
> type species. Hopefully you have a thorough enough knowledge of the
> literature to be quite certain whether or not this has happened. If not,
> then you are free to designate one from among the originally included
> species yourself.
>
> Peace,
>
> --
> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314     skype: dyanega
> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>               http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
>    "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>          is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 137, Issue 13
> ****************************************
>


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