[Taxacom] "Felder & Rogenhofer 1874"

Francisco Welter-Schultes fwelter at gwdg.de
Sun Sep 24 18:30:57 CDT 2017


As I said, I have no problem with it. Usually the dates are researched. 
The problem is that it is difficult to find out where the dates have 
been published. We have a typical case here. The problem is how to 
connect such information.
I have done such researches on dates myself, and did not have the 
feeling you describe. I could have described more taxa, but in this 
epoch I just liked to do some library work and research some dates. 
Working with such old works is interesting because as a scientist you 
can learn a lot.
Changing the rules, as you suggest, would distort a well established 
system, and this would be much worse. We would have to revise the dates 
of many thousand names, and also change names of species because of 
changing precedences within species. This would threaten stability.

-----
Francisco

Am 24.09.2017 um 23:46 schrieb Stephen Thorpe:
> Clear and stable is important, yes, but so is simple (and not requiring work for no real gain or scientific relevance). Do you really think that such "work" (to determine historical dates of publication of plates) is a good use of research funding in a world where still untold thousands of taxa are undescribed?
> 
> Stephen
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 25/9/17, Francisco Welter-Schultes <fwelter at gwdg.de> wrote:
> 
>   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] "Felder & Rogenhofer 1874"
>   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   Received: Monday, 25 September, 2017, 9:38 AM
>   
>   The dates of such works are not
>   the problem. It is possible to research
>   them. You are right, it is additional work, but
>   I have no problem with
>   it. The most
>   important thing is a clear and stable rule.
>   
>   -----
>   Francisco
>   
>   Am
>   24.09.2017 um 23:21 schrieb Stephen Thorpe:
>   > This is precisely the sort of
>   nomenclatural nonsense which gives taxonomy a bad name! For
>   God's sake, why not just have a simple rule in the Code
>   which says that illustrations published before the text are
>   deemed to be published simultaneously with the text? It
>   would save so much pointless work trying to determine dates.
>   Such work has absolutely no scientific content or merit.
>   >
>   > Stephen
>   >
>   >
>   --------------------------------------------
>   > On Sat, 23/9/17, Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
>   wrote:
>   >
>   >
>   Subject: [Taxacom] "Felder & Rogenhofer
>   1874"
>   >   To: "iczn-list"
>   <iczn-list at afriherp.org>,
>   "taxacom" <TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU>
>   >   Received: Saturday, 23 September, 2017,
>   4:44 AM
>   >
>   >   Hi.
>   Can anyone give a definitive statement
>   >   regarding the work linked here:
>   >
>http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/1221095#page/9/mode/1up
>   >
>   >   Here is the
>   situation: this particular
>   >   work, as
>   linked here from the
>   >
>   Smithsonian's copy, LOOKS like a single
>   >   work, and the second page says
>   >   "Juli 1875". However, if you
>   look at
>   >   the plates at the end, they
>   all
>   >   have a date at the bottom that
>   says
>   >   1868. There are some names
>   that
>   >   appear differently in the text
>   and
>   >   plates, so potentially made
>   available
>   >   on different dates if they
>   were *not*
>   >   simultaneously issued.
>   This
>   >   potentially affects the
>   validity of at
>   >   least one genus name
>   presently in
>   >   use, so I would like to
>   be certain I
>   >   have the details
>   correct.
>   >
>   >
>   Neave, in the Nomenclator Zoologicus,
>   >
>    cites names in the plates as being
>   >
>   from 1868, and names in the text as
>   >
>   being from 1874.
>   >
>   >   References to this work in the NHM
>   >   Catalog at
>   >
>http://www.nhm.ac.uk/our-science/data/butmoth/
>   >
>   >   cite the names
>   appearing in the plates
>   >   as being
>   from 1874 and the text
>   >   as being from
>   1875 (despite both being
>   >   linked to
>   the BHL copy which has
>   >   them in a
>   single work).
>   >
>   >   I have not yet been able to locate
>   any
>   >   source that explains (1) what
>   >   *evidence* there is that the plates
>   and
>   >   text were published
>   separately,
>   >   nor (2) how and why one
>   of the dates is
>   >   usually given as
>   1874, nor (3)
>   >   why the dates of the
>   presumed separate
>   >   parts are given
>   inconsistently by
>   >   different sources.
>   It also strikes me
>   >   as odd that the
>   work seems
>   >   *uniformly* cited as
>   "Felder &
>   >   Rogenhofer"
>   when the text rather clearly
>   >   lists
>   TWO Felders, Cajetan and Rudolf
>   >
>   (shouldn't it then be Felder,
>   >
>   Felder & Rogenhofer?).
>   >
>   >   This is very confusing, to say the
>   >   least, and I would be grateful if
>   >   anyone can point to something that
>   >   would help iron this out.
>   >
>   >   Peace,
>   >
>   >   --
>   >   Doug Yanega      Dept.
>   >   of Entomology       Entomology
>   Research
>   >   Museum
>   >   Univ. of California, Riverside, CA
>   >   92521-0314     skype: dyanega
>   >   phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer:
>   >   opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>   >
>   >
>       http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
>   >      "There are some enterprises
>   in
>   >   which a careful disorderliness
>   >            is the
>   >   true method" - Herman Melville,
>   Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>   >
>   >
>   _______________________________________________
>   >   Taxacom Mailing List
>Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
>http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>   >   The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
>   be
>   >   searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>   >
>   >   Send Taxacom
>   mailing list submissions
>   >   to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
>   >   Web, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>   >   You can reach the person managing
>   the
>   >   list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >
>   >   Nurturing
>   Nuance while Assaulting
>   >   Ambiguity
>   for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>   >
>   >
>   _______________________________________________
>   > Taxacom Mailing List
>   >
>   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
>   > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>   > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>   searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>   >
>   > Send Taxacom mailing
>   list submissions to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web,
>   visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>   > You can reach the person managing the list
>   at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >
>   > Nurturing Nuance
>   while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>   >
>   
>   _______________________________________________
>   Taxacom Mailing List
>   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
>   http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>   The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>   searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>   
>   Send Taxacom mailing list
>   submissions to taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
>   http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>   You can reach the person managing the list at:
>   taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   
>   Nurturing Nuance while
>   Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>   
> .
> 


More information about the Taxacom mailing list