[Taxacom] Questions about availability of a species name

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Fri Aug 24 17:54:09 CDT 2018


John, with all due respect, I think that you are misrepresenting my position on this issue. You say "I do not think we should start accepting names as available where, under the code, they clearly are not". I can and do completely agree with that, with the only caveat that if an article in the Code is already somewhat vague, not clearly followed to the strictest reading by many authors at all, counterproductive to the extent that it invalidates good taxonomy based on a very minor technicality, creating confusion (i.e., what looks like a valid description of a new name actually fails to establish a new available name, and we still need to somehow track the unavailable name in the literature as if it were an available name, or else miss out on useful information about a good species), then it may, I suggest, be a better option pragmatically to simply note the problem but treat the name as if it were an available name, for the sake of the science rather than giving too much weight to minor technicalities in a somewhat officious book of rules!
Cheers,
Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 24/8/18, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Questions about availability of a species name
 To: "'Michael A. Ivie'" <mivie at montana.edu>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Friday, 24 August, 2018, 8:33 PM
 
 Hi Jose,
 
 Just to add my ha'penny's worth. I
 completely disagree with Stephen and agree with Mike. This
 sort of problem has happened on numerous occasions in
 Chalcidoidea. I have always contacted the authors to ask
 them to correct the problem in the way that Mike suggests
 (in his later e-mail). I do not think we should start
 accepting names as available where, under the code, they
 clearly are not. The compilers of the code put this
 requirement in for a reason. We may, or may not, agree with
 it. It is easy for the authors to correct this problem in a
 way that satisfies everyone and does not leave this hanging
 in the air which is something we should all avoid..
 
 John
 
 John Noyes
 Scientific
 Associate
 Department of Life Sciences
 Natural History Museum
 Cromwell
 Road
 South Kensington
 London
 SW7 5BD 
 UK
 jsn at nhm.ac.uk
 Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
 Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
 
 Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you
 wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
 www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
 On Behalf Of Michael A. Ivie
 Sent: 23 August
 2018 23:05
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Questions about
 availability of a species name
 
 Well, Stephen, it may be a country-specific
 thing, but there are 
 numerous types of
 "statements" that are not "statements in
 words" that 
 are protected by US court
 decisions as free speach.  Mooning, flipping 
 someone off, burning a flag, emoticons and many
 other statements are not 
 in words, but are
 clearly statements.
 
 Mike
 ;-
 
 
 
 On 8/23/2018 3:20 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
 > You can't seriously make a distinction
 between "statement" and "statement in
 words"!! This proves my point about pointless
 "taxo-lawyering"!
 > Stephen
 >
 >
 --------------------------------------------
 > On Thu, 23/8/18, Adam Cotton <adamcot at cscoms.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >   Subject:
 Re: [Taxacom] Questions about availability of a species
 name
 >   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   Received: Thursday, 23 August, 2018,
 11:48 PM
 >   
 >  
 ----- Original Message -----
 >   From:
 "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 >   To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>;
 >   "Adam Cotton" <adamcot at cscoms.com>
 >   Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:21
 >   PM
 >   Subject: Re:
 [Taxacom] Questions about
 >  
 availability of a species name
 >   
 >   
 >   > (BMNH)
 isn't even a statement, but
 >   is
 at most an indication that the
 >   >
 specimen is from BMNH, but the
 >  
 describing author may have the option of
 >   > depositing the type elsewhere,
 >   even if it is from BMNH, so we
 cannot
 >   > assume that the specimen
 will end
 >   up in the same collection
 from which the
 >   > author received
 it.
 >   >
 >  
 >> "BMNH" already is a known name
 >   and  location of the depository, and
 thus
 >   >> fulfils the second
 part
 >   > No it does not! The Code
 requires
 >   a a STATEMENT indicating
 the name and
 >   > location of that
 collection! This
 >   is often given in
 the methods section of
 >   > a paper,
 but sometimes not.
 >   >
 >   > Stephen
 >  
 >
 >   >
 >  
 
 >   
 >  
 Stephen,
 >   
 >  
 Here again I disagree. Article 16.4.2
 > 
  is different to other Code articles.
 > 
  Other articles use the phrase
 >  
 "statement in words", whereas 16.4.2 only says
 >   "statement". As a result I do
 not think
 >   that the statement has to
 be a
 >   complete phrase or sentence.
 >   
 >   Most papers
 will give a lits of
 >   acronyms used,
 such as "BMNH = Natural
 >   History
 Museum, London" or at least
 >  
 include such in brackets somewhere in
 > 
  the text. If the information about the
 >   holotype states: "Holotype blah
 blah
 >   [data] (BMNH)" that
 clearly means that
 >   the specimen is
 in BMNH, thus there
 >   is a statement
 of location of the
 >   holotype included
 already, rather than
 >   requiring a
 statement in words which
 >   would be
 necessary for instance when
 >   giving
 the purported difference between
 >   the
 new taxon and previously
 >   described
 related taxa.
 >   
 >   I do get your point that the
 specimen
 >   may have been borrowed from
 BMNH for
 >   purposes of the research
 leading to the
 >   publication, but it
 is unlikely that
 >   the author would
 not state this fact.
 >   
 >   Adam.
 >   
 >  
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 -- 
 __________________________________________________
 
 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 F.R.E.S.
 
 NOTE: two
 addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
 
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 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 PO Box
 173145
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 Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
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