[Taxacom] canaliculate

Jon Todd j.todd at nhm.ac.uk
Wed Aug 5 14:38:27 CDT 2020


I find the search for an obscure adjective for the channelled morphology a bit mystifying. What is wrong with saying something like “U-shaped with rounded margins”?

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three (Joey Slowik)
   2. canliculate (Les Watling)
   3. Re: canliculate (José H. Leal)
   4. Re: canliculate (John Grehan)
   5. Re: OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three (Adolf Ceska)
   6. Re: OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three (Alan Franck)
   7. Re: canliculate (Dennis During)
   8. Re: canliculate (John Grehan)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:44:53 -0800
From: Joey Slowik <slowspider at gmail.com>
To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
Message-ID:
        <CANZ+OWW4DBd_6k1Afxp8kGQ4fpnFTM6Q58rWWmapFX6shQrV8w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I haven't read Meierotto et al. (2019) but have done a bit with DNA
barcoding. I don't see how that little bit of information could be
used for species descriptions alone. There have been arguments for
Generic elevation based on DNA barcodes with some success in crab
spiders, for example Breitling, R. (2019a). But it seems like with
spiders anyway you need some physical attributes as well, or more DNA.
This never rids mtDNA of always presenting the identification of the
mother in introgression. In my work I have come across species which
barcoded out as one species and morphologically was another. A clear
sign of introgression, and would be an incorrect ID using barcode
alone.

Just a couple thoughts

Joey Slowik
UAF

On 8/4/20, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom
<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> Dear Taxacomers,
> I bring to your attention a new chapter on the Meierotto et al. (2019) saga:
> Zamani et al. (2020): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
> ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F343408816_The_omission_of_critical_data_in_the_pursuit_of_%27revolutionary%27_methods_to_accelerate_the_description_of_species&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=wHuHYIMa4PJWDigXcrxdfr8iu4bDIHFHwK1OHUs5mvI%3D&reserved=0
>
> "In our eyes, methodological changes to the way species are delineated and
> described are an important component of increasing the rate of species
> description, but dismissing the existing literature, and producing
> ‘descriptions’ that contain almost no information on the morphology of
> species, its variation, their unique features, their biology, or other
> aspects, do not constitute a revolution, and cannot be adopted."
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=xirasiFfj%2BYWjvzmA17wyxUSiqGtubWV1JrLFjrot9Y%3D&reserved=0>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=Mca2KmndrauwWU9Wnj2qC0hoQNkNH%2FHsVPVc%2F6iNXvs%3D&reserved=0>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=OxKy11WPKVqGOTEsIRMvSM7eBy3agEMlc8t8GAr%2BIqY%3D&reserved=0>
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>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:06:22 -0400
From: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>
To: "Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] canliculate
Message-ID:
        <CA+CynLCy+90Qfh1J2BS+AjrcuMwfG3vJt+UDiXDZfbYhdPanmg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is more
wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
depressions.

Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with specific
attributes.

When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought a
book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't as
easy to use as one might think.

In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too broad
or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
"U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
precision than that....

Best,
Les



Les Watling
Professor, Dept. of Biology
216 Edmondson Hall
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI 96822
Ph. 808-956-8621
Cell: 808-772-9563
e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:12:22 -0400
From: José H. Leal <jleal at shellmuseum.org>
To: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>
Cc: "Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
Message-ID:
        <CABLKaQAveRoMGNr4xGBp8jih1vubnrTjofM9=BakbizaPv=w6Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Perhaps "channeled," or "fluted?"
_______________________________________________________
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On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
> former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is more
> wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
> depressions.
>
> Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
> but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with specific
> attributes.
>
> When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought a
> book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't as
> easy to use as one might think.
>
> In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too broad
> or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> precision than that....
>
> Best,
> Les
>
>
>
> Les Watling
> Professor, Dept. of Biology
> 216 Edmondson Hall
> University of Hawaii at Manoa
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> Ph. 808-956-8621
> Cell: 808-772-9563
> e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=bswciMpH1kO%2F7UbIyzYMLfiJyF0kFaEWeqrotwJaHPY%3D&reserved=0
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=svSsyolpB4RtB3KOS2xFSf4IJPp7zF0YG2zjty91xEk%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:16:49 -0400
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
To: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>
Cc: "Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
Message-ID:
        <CADN0ud3pbpp_-T1Kh32nJhuvE7VRb86hPHtj4WwwXzVHMW8WUA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

It would be nice if there were a good word for u-shaped, and also for a
u-shape that curves medially towards the distal ends (sort of like the
Greeek letter omega), but if there isn't, then there isn't ,and will I
manage anyway.

John Grehan

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
> former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is more
> wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
> depressions.
>
> Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
> but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with specific
> attributes.
>
> When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought a
> book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't as
> easy to use as one might think.
>
> In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too broad
> or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> precision than that....
>
> Best,
> Les
>
>
>
> Les Watling
> Professor, Dept. of Biology
> 216 Edmondson Hall
> University of Hawaii at Manoa
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> Ph. 808-956-8621
> Cell: 808-772-9563
> e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=bswciMpH1kO%2F7UbIyzYMLfiJyF0kFaEWeqrotwJaHPY%3D&reserved=0
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=svSsyolpB4RtB3KOS2xFSf4IJPp7zF0YG2zjty91xEk%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:30:29 -0700
From: "Adolf Ceska" <aceska at telus.net>
To: "'Joey Slowik'" <slowspider at gmail.com>, 'Carlos Alberto Martínez
        Muñoz' <biotemail at gmail.com>, "'taxacom'"
        <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
Message-ID: <002f01d66a8d$5642ce00$02c86a00$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"

Rhizopogon kretzerae was described only from the DNA obtained from mycorrhizal roots of Pterospora andromedea and Pinus strobus - see
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ou.edu%2Fcas%2Fbotany-micro%2Fben%2Fben516.html%233&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990393069&sdata=W%2FiDYhDI023S86B2lymLfhDat%2B6ZcBrIY9x2Kb9CU5k%3D&reserved=0 (BEN plates do no work in the COVID-19 quarantine).
Index Fungorum does not see any problems with this:
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speciesfungorum.org%2FNames%2FSynSpecies.asp%3FRecordID%3D550254&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=YqHO15BYSnWz%2FtVCMF3McwKEi8KbzR5cSs10%2FE6uT6A%3D&reserved=0
What if Rhizopogon kretzerae does never produce fruiting bodies as the authors postulated?

Adolf Ceska, Victoria, BC, Canada


-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Joey Slowik via Taxacom
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:45
To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz
Cc: Taxa com
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three

I haven't read Meierotto et al. (2019) but have done a bit with DNA barcoding. I don't see how that little bit of information could be used for species descriptions alone. There have been arguments for Generic elevation based on DNA barcodes with some success in crab spiders, for example Breitling, R. (2019a). But it seems like with spiders anyway you need some physical attributes as well, or more DNA.
This never rids mtDNA of always presenting the identification of the mother in introgression. In my work I have come across species which barcoded out as one species and morphologically was another. A clear sign of introgression, and would be an incorrect ID using barcode alone.

Just a couple thoughts

Joey Slowik
UAF

On 8/4/20, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> Dear Taxacomers,
> I bring to your attention a new chapter on the Meierotto et al. (2019) saga:
> Zamani et al. (2020): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
> ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F343408816_The_omission_of_cri&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990403024&sdata=LdPTnly24cYuZsgZdplQ3K6fNt1NMcVSDkWMCqanY4Q%3D&reserved=0
> tical_data_in_the_pursuit_of_'revolutionary'_methods_to_accelerate_the
> _description_of_species
>
> "In our eyes, methodological changes to the way species are delineated
> and described are an important component of increasing the rate of
> species description, but dismissing the existing literature, and
> producing ‘descriptions’ that contain almost no information on the
> morphology of species, its variation, their unique features, their
> biology, or other aspects, do not constitute a revolution, and cannot be adopted."
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=tA%2FJp%2F7mjAfy%2FkeyGyxzFgujAzZlBgKQGK9yPzdoLfY%3D&reserved=0>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=wYJsE07ai4b1932GGxTsRm48iwClAGraNQMVEONLaGk%3D&reserved=0>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=SmoSFzeMhdjO%2BjAgjeDKEu%2B8dC2TFffRLDeCKnb1zsQ%3D&reserved=0>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:42:39 -0400
From: Alan Franck <afranck at mail.usf.edu>
To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
Message-ID:
        <CAM+VkMfGd5hGYawUR-pWmJYncvZHgRYi6mP5Jq0oJUXGBHFBWw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi all,

The description of Rhizopogon kretzerae was accompanied by a detailed
morphological description of cultured mycelia and a holotype deposited at
DAOM.
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1139%2Fcjb-2013-0309&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=ND%2BnrAzhglhNrUw7et1k2GqXFuJx6BqLogxkxfg5ubI%3D&reserved=0

Kind regards,

Alan


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:30 PM Adolf Ceska via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> Rhizopogon kretzerae was described only from the DNA obtained from
> mycorrhizal roots of Pterospora andromedea and Pinus strobus - see
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ou.edu%2Fcas%2Fbotany-micro%2Fben%2Fben516.html%233&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990403024&sdata=ba4DOCrMUIxyD4gABz6fZ3GQxrgCpCbEVInQfDzYL6k%3D&reserved=0 (BEN plates do no
> work in the COVID-19 quarantine).
> Index Fungorum does not see any problems with this:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speciesfungorum.org%2FNames%2FSynSpecies.asp%3FRecordID%3D550254&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=YqHO15BYSnWz%2FtVCMF3McwKEi8KbzR5cSs10%2FE6uT6A%3D&reserved=0
> What if Rhizopogon kretzerae does never produce fruiting bodies as the
> authors postulated?
>
> Adolf Ceska, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
> Joey Slowik via Taxacom
> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:45
> To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz
> Cc: Taxa com
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
>
> I haven't read Meierotto et al. (2019) but have done a bit with DNA
> barcoding. I don't see how that little bit of information could be used for
> species descriptions alone. There have been arguments for Generic elevation
> based on DNA barcodes with some success in crab spiders, for example
> Breitling, R. (2019a). But it seems like with spiders anyway you need some
> physical attributes as well, or more DNA.
> This never rids mtDNA of always presenting the identification of the
> mother in introgression. In my work I have come across species which
> barcoded out as one species and morphologically was another. A clear sign
> of introgression, and would be an incorrect ID using barcode alone.
>
> Just a couple thoughts
>
> Joey Slowik
> UAF
>
> On 8/4/20, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > Dear Taxacomers,
> > I bring to your attention a new chapter on the Meierotto et al. (2019)
> saga:
> > Zamani et al. (2020): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
> > ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F343408816_The_omission_of_cri&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990403024&sdata=LdPTnly24cYuZsgZdplQ3K6fNt1NMcVSDkWMCqanY4Q%3D&reserved=0
> > tical_data_in_the_pursuit_of_'revolutionary'_methods_to_accelerate_the
> > _description_of_species
> >
> > "In our eyes, methodological changes to the way species are delineated
> > and described are an important component of increasing the rate of
> > species description, but dismissing the existing literature, and
> > producing ‘descriptions’ that contain almost no information on the
> > morphology of species, its variation, their unique features, their
> > biology, or other aspects, do not constitute a revolution, and cannot be
> adopted."
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=tA%2FJp%2F7mjAfy%2FkeyGyxzFgujAzZlBgKQGK9yPzdoLfY%3D&reserved=0>
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=wYJsE07ai4b1932GGxTsRm48iwClAGraNQMVEONLaGk%3D&reserved=0>
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=SmoSFzeMhdjO%2BjAgjeDKEu%2B8dC2TFffRLDeCKnb1zsQ%3D&reserved=0>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
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> You can reach the person managing the list at:
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> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=lXP7pmaJ8cjobqEOMgzPhrDc0W3G%2Bg%2B4K2rloom8jUc%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 18:40:06 -0400
From: Dennis During <dcduring at gmail.com>
To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Cc: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>,  "Cc:
        taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
Message-ID:
        <CAFZ2-wtGAo1uA3RzxOrz1PGGeM0TT9Ts=uCXTz4m=joRP8UXeQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Is the U shape in plan or section?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 14:17 John Grehan via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> It would be nice if there were a good word for u-shaped, and also for a
> u-shape that curves medially towards the distal ends (sort of like the
> Greeek letter omega), but if there isn't, then there isn't ,and will I
> manage anyway.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> > structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> > dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
> > former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is
> more
> > wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> > wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
> > depressions.
> >
> > Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> > glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
> > but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> > based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with
> specific
> > attributes.
> >
> > When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> > vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought
> a
> > book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't
> as
> > easy to use as one might think.
> >
> > In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too
> broad
> > or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> > "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> > precision than that....
> >
> > Best,
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > Les Watling
> > Professor, Dept. of Biology
> > 216 Edmondson Hall
> > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> > Honolulu, HI 96822
> > Ph. 808-956-8621
> > Cell: 808-772-9563
> > e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=StmMMTyuM%2BDGkJwGiuK7NukmZ25yIB4SqW3MbsvcyXY%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=lXP7pmaJ8cjobqEOMgzPhrDc0W3G%2Bg%2B4K2rloom8jUc%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
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> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=DRzF98z8mtnI1PJRGdSk37ftDPL4LgtVKHySyU8PNDA%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 23:42:17 -0400
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
To: Dennis During <dcduring at gmail.com>
Cc: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>,  "Cc:
        taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
Message-ID:
        <CADN0ud3_5QNQn+8k29u3-1h=fFf7gZWPhDj_-u+LA_ip_KONag at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

It is a cross section (transverse) shape. As Mary says, it depends on the
audience for understanding the terminology. With that in mind I will
probably have to stick to descriptive adjectives such as a tubular U-shaped
channel since it is a channel, but neither u or V in cross section, but
closing over slightly at the top like an inverted omega symbol (but without
the lateral extensions of the omega symbol). There will be a photo so in
the end perhaps the words do not mean so much.

John Grehan

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:43 PM Dennis During <dcduring at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is the U shape in plan or section?
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 14:17 John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>> It would be nice if there were a good word for u-shaped, and also for a
>> u-shape that curves medially towards the distal ends (sort of like the
>> Greeek letter omega), but if there isn't, then there isn't ,and will I
>> manage anyway.
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
>> > structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
>> > dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
>> > former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is
>> more
>> > wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
>> > wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more
>> steep-sided
>> > depressions.
>> >
>> > Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
>> > glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter
>> case),
>> > but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
>> > based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with
>> specific
>> > attributes.
>> >
>> > When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
>> > vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I
>> bought a
>> > book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but
>> wasn't as
>> > easy to use as one might think.
>> >
>> > In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too
>> broad
>> > or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
>> > "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
>> > precision than that....
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Les
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Les Watling
>> > Professor, Dept. of Biology
>> > 216 Edmondson Hall
>> > University of Hawaii at Manoa
>> > Honolulu, HI 96822
>> > Ph. 808-956-8621
>> > Cell: 808-772-9563
>> > e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >
>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=aO7tDsiqeEAckXDlPq2qGcIWDG5lstig2AVDCQab2QI%3D&reserved=0
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=DRzF98z8mtnI1PJRGdSk37ftDPL4LgtVKHySyU8PNDA%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>> 1987-2020.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=aO7tDsiqeEAckXDlPq2qGcIWDG5lstig2AVDCQab2QI%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=DRzF98z8mtnI1PJRGdSk37ftDPL4LgtVKHySyU8PNDA%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>>
>


------------------------------

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Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.


------------------------------

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