[Taxacom] canaliculate

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Wed Aug 5 21:17:32 CDT 2020


  Nothing at all. I was not looking for 'obscure' terminology, but wondered
whether there might have been a suitable term that was descriptively
suitable. But evidently not for this particular case. But I appreciate all
the feedback on this obscure question.

John Grehan

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:38 PM Jon Todd via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> I find the search for an obscure adjective for the channelled morphology a
> bit mystifying. What is wrong with saying something like “U-shaped with
> rounded margins”?
>
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> From: taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:
> taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Sent: 05 August 2020 18:06
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Taxacom Digest, Vol 172, Issue 5
>
> Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
>
> When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
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> ____________________________________
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three (Joey Slowik)
>    2. canliculate (Les Watling)
>    3. Re: canliculate (José H. Leal)
>    4. Re: canliculate (John Grehan)
>    5. Re: OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three (Adolf Ceska)
>    6. Re: OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three (Alan Franck)
>    7. Re: canliculate (Dennis During)
>    8. Re: canliculate (John Grehan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:44:53 -0800
> From: Joey Slowik <slowspider at gmail.com>
> To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
> Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CANZ+OWW4DBd_6k1Afxp8kGQ4fpnFTM6Q58rWWmapFX6shQrV8w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I haven't read Meierotto et al. (2019) but have done a bit with DNA
> barcoding. I don't see how that little bit of information could be
> used for species descriptions alone. There have been arguments for
> Generic elevation based on DNA barcodes with some success in crab
> spiders, for example Breitling, R. (2019a). But it seems like with
> spiders anyway you need some physical attributes as well, or more DNA.
> This never rids mtDNA of always presenting the identification of the
> mother in introgression. In my work I have come across species which
> barcoded out as one species and morphologically was another. A clear
> sign of introgression, and would be an incorrect ID using barcode
> alone.
>
> Just a couple thoughts
>
> Joey Slowik
> UAF
>
> On 8/4/20, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom
> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > Dear Taxacomers,
> > I bring to your attention a new chapter on the Meierotto et al. (2019)
> saga:
> > Zamani et al. (2020): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
> > ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F343408816_The_omission_of_critical_data_in_the_pursuit_of_%27revolutionary%27_methods_to_accelerate_the_description_of_species&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=wHuHYIMa4PJWDigXcrxdfr8iu4bDIHFHwK1OHUs5mvI%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > "In our eyes, methodological changes to the way species are delineated
> and
> > described are an important component of increasing the rate of species
> > description, but dismissing the existing literature, and producing
> > ‘descriptions’ that contain almost no information on the morphology of
> > species, its variation, their unique features, their biology, or other
> > aspects, do not constitute a revolution, and cannot be adopted."
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=xirasiFfj%2BYWjvzmA17wyxUSiqGtubWV1JrLFjrot9Y%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=Mca2KmndrauwWU9Wnj2qC0hoQNkNH%2FHsVPVc%2F6iNXvs%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <
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> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
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> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
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> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=svSsyolpB4RtB3KOS2xFSf4IJPp7zF0YG2zjty91xEk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:06:22 -0400
> From: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>
> To: "Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: [Taxacom] canliculate
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CA+CynLCy+90Qfh1J2BS+AjrcuMwfG3vJt+UDiXDZfbYhdPanmg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
> former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is more
> wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
> depressions.
>
> Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
> but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with specific
> attributes.
>
> When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought a
> book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't as
> easy to use as one might think.
>
> In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too broad
> or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> precision than that....
>
> Best,
> Les
>
>
>
> Les Watling
> Professor, Dept. of Biology
> 216 Edmondson Hall
> University of Hawaii at Manoa
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> Ph. 808-956-8621
> Cell: 808-772-9563
> e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:12:22 -0400
> From: José H. Leal <jleal at shellmuseum.org>
> To: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>
> Cc: "Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
> Message-ID:
>         <CABLKaQAveRoMGNr4xGBp8jih1vubnrTjofM9=BakbizaPv=
> w6Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Perhaps "channeled," or "fluted?"
> _______________________________________________________
> *José H. Leal, Ph.D. | Science Director & Curator*
>  [image:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shellmuseum.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=a6lUudEkMH%2BIzXTAAQVnPiyqjM8sy1FczdpEZnOQLXA%3D&reserved=0]
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> >
>
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>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> > structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> > dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
> > former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is
> more
> > wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> > wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
> > depressions.
> >
> > Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> > glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
> > but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> > based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with
> specific
> > attributes.
> >
> > When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> > vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought
> a
> > book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't
> as
> > easy to use as one might think.
> >
> > In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too
> broad
> > or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> > "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> > precision than that....
> >
> > Best,
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > Les Watling
> > Professor, Dept. of Biology
> > 216 Edmondson Hall
> > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> > Honolulu, HI 96822
> > Ph. 808-956-8621
> > Cell: 808-772-9563
> > e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=bswciMpH1kO%2F7UbIyzYMLfiJyF0kFaEWeqrotwJaHPY%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=svSsyolpB4RtB3KOS2xFSf4IJPp7zF0YG2zjty91xEk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:16:49 -0400
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>
> Cc: "Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADN0ud3pbpp_-T1Kh32nJhuvE7VRb86hPHtj4WwwXzVHMW8WUA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It would be nice if there were a good word for u-shaped, and also for a
> u-shape that curves medially towards the distal ends (sort of like the
> Greeek letter omega), but if there isn't, then there isn't ,and will I
> manage anyway.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> > structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> > dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate. The
> > former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is
> more
> > wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> > wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more steep-sided
> > depressions.
> >
> > Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> > glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter case),
> > but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> > based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with
> specific
> > attributes.
> >
> > When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> > vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I bought
> a
> > book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but wasn't
> as
> > easy to use as one might think.
> >
> > In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too
> broad
> > or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> > "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> > precision than that....
> >
> > Best,
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > Les Watling
> > Professor, Dept. of Biology
> > 216 Edmondson Hall
> > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> > Honolulu, HI 96822
> > Ph. 808-956-8621
> > Cell: 808-772-9563
> > e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=bswciMpH1kO%2F7UbIyzYMLfiJyF0kFaEWeqrotwJaHPY%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990393069&sdata=svSsyolpB4RtB3KOS2xFSf4IJPp7zF0YG2zjty91xEk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:30:29 -0700
> From: "Adolf Ceska" <aceska at telus.net>
> To: "'Joey Slowik'" <slowspider at gmail.com>, 'Carlos Alberto Martínez
>         Muñoz' <biotemail at gmail.com>, "'taxacom'"
>         <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
> Message-ID: <002f01d66a8d$5642ce00$02c86a00$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Rhizopogon kretzerae was described only from the DNA obtained from
> mycorrhizal roots of Pterospora andromedea and Pinus strobus - see
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ou.edu%2Fcas%2Fbotany-micro%2Fben%2Fben516.html%233&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990393069&sdata=W%2FiDYhDI023S86B2lymLfhDat%2B6ZcBrIY9x2Kb9CU5k%3D&reserved=0
> (BEN plates do no work in the COVID-19 quarantine).
> Index Fungorum does not see any problems with this:
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speciesfungorum.org%2FNames%2FSynSpecies.asp%3FRecordID%3D550254&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=YqHO15BYSnWz%2FtVCMF3McwKEi8KbzR5cSs10%2FE6uT6A%3D&reserved=0
> What if Rhizopogon kretzerae does never produce fruiting bodies as the
> authors postulated?
>
> Adolf Ceska, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
> Joey Slowik via Taxacom
> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:45
> To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz
> Cc: Taxa com
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
>
> I haven't read Meierotto et al. (2019) but have done a bit with DNA
> barcoding. I don't see how that little bit of information could be used for
> species descriptions alone. There have been arguments for Generic elevation
> based on DNA barcodes with some success in crab spiders, for example
> Breitling, R. (2019a). But it seems like with spiders anyway you need some
> physical attributes as well, or more DNA.
> This never rids mtDNA of always presenting the identification of the
> mother in introgression. In my work I have come across species which
> barcoded out as one species and morphologically was another. A clear sign
> of introgression, and would be an incorrect ID using barcode alone.
>
> Just a couple thoughts
>
> Joey Slowik
> UAF
>
> On 8/4/20, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > Dear Taxacomers,
> > I bring to your attention a new chapter on the Meierotto et al. (2019)
> saga:
> > Zamani et al. (2020): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
> > ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F343408816_The_omission_of_cri&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990403024&sdata=LdPTnly24cYuZsgZdplQ3K6fNt1NMcVSDkWMCqanY4Q%3D&reserved=0
> > tical_data_in_the_pursuit_of_'revolutionary'_methods_to_accelerate_the
> > _description_of_species
> >
> > "In our eyes, methodological changes to the way species are delineated
> > and described are an important component of increasing the rate of
> > species description, but dismissing the existing literature, and
> > producing ‘descriptions’ that contain almost no information on the
> > morphology of species, its variation, their unique features, their
> > biology, or other aspects, do not constitute a revolution, and cannot be
> adopted."
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=tA%2FJp%2F7mjAfy%2FkeyGyxzFgujAzZlBgKQGK9yPzdoLfY%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=wYJsE07ai4b1932GGxTsRm48iwClAGraNQMVEONLaGk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=SmoSFzeMhdjO%2BjAgjeDKEu%2B8dC2TFffRLDeCKnb1zsQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:42:39 -0400
> From: Alan Franck <afranck at mail.usf.edu>
> To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAM+VkMfGd5hGYawUR-pWmJYncvZHgRYi6mP5Jq0oJUXGBHFBWw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi all,
>
> The description of Rhizopogon kretzerae was accompanied by a detailed
> morphological description of cultured mycelia and a holotype deposited at
> DAOM.
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1139%2Fcjb-2013-0309&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=ND%2BnrAzhglhNrUw7et1k2GqXFuJx6BqLogxkxfg5ubI%3D&reserved=0
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:30 PM Adolf Ceska via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > Rhizopogon kretzerae was described only from the DNA obtained from
> > mycorrhizal roots of Pterospora andromedea and Pinus strobus - see
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ou.edu%2Fcas%2Fbotany-micro%2Fben%2Fben516.html%233&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990403024&sdata=ba4DOCrMUIxyD4gABz6fZ3GQxrgCpCbEVInQfDzYL6k%3D&reserved=0
> (BEN plates do no
> > work in the COVID-19 quarantine).
> > Index Fungorum does not see any problems with this:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speciesfungorum.org%2FNames%2FSynSpecies.asp%3FRecordID%3D550254&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=YqHO15BYSnWz%2FtVCMF3McwKEi8KbzR5cSs10%2FE6uT6A%3D&reserved=0
> > What if Rhizopogon kretzerae does never produce fruiting bodies as the
> > authors postulated?
> >
> > Adolf Ceska, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Joey Slowik via Taxacom
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:45
> > To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz
> > Cc: Taxa com
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] OMG! DNA only descriptions! - Round Three
> >
> > I haven't read Meierotto et al. (2019) but have done a bit with DNA
> > barcoding. I don't see how that little bit of information could be used
> for
> > species descriptions alone. There have been arguments for Generic
> elevation
> > based on DNA barcodes with some success in crab spiders, for example
> > Breitling, R. (2019a). But it seems like with spiders anyway you need
> some
> > physical attributes as well, or more DNA.
> > This never rids mtDNA of always presenting the identification of the
> > mother in introgression. In my work I have come across species which
> > barcoded out as one species and morphologically was another. A clear sign
> > of introgression, and would be an incorrect ID using barcode alone.
> >
> > Just a couple thoughts
> >
> > Joey Slowik
> > UAF
> >
> > On 8/4/20, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > > Dear Taxacomers,
> > > I bring to your attention a new chapter on the Meierotto et al. (2019)
> > saga:
> > > Zamani et al. (2020): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
> > > ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
> > >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F343408816_The_omission_of_cri&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637322439990403024&sdata=LdPTnly24cYuZsgZdplQ3K6fNt1NMcVSDkWMCqanY4Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > tical_data_in_the_pursuit_of_'revolutionary'_methods_to_accelerate_the
> > > _description_of_species
> > >
> > > "In our eyes, methodological changes to the way species are delineated
> > > and described are an important component of increasing the rate of
> > > species description, but dismissing the existing literature, and
> > > producing ‘descriptions’ that contain almost no information on the
> > > morphology of species, its variation, their unique features, their
> > > biology, or other aspects, do not constitute a revolution, and cannot
> be
> > adopted."
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > Finland
> > > Myriatrix <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=tA%2FJp%2F7mjAfy%2FkeyGyxzFgujAzZlBgKQGK9yPzdoLfY%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > > ResearchGate profile
> > > <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=wYJsE07ai4b1932GGxTsRm48iwClAGraNQMVEONLaGk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=SmoSFzeMhdjO%2BjAgjeDKEu%2B8dC2TFffRLDeCKnb1zsQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=StmMMTyuM%2BDGkJwGiuK7NukmZ25yIB4SqW3MbsvcyXY%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=lXP7pmaJ8cjobqEOMgzPhrDc0W3G%2Bg%2B4K2rloom8jUc%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 18:40:06 -0400
> From: Dennis During <dcduring at gmail.com>
> To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> Cc: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>,  "Cc:
>         taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
> Message-ID:
>         <CAFZ2-wtGAo1uA3RzxOrz1PGGeM0TT9Ts=uCXTz4m=
> joRP8UXeQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Is the U shape in plan or section?
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 14:17 John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > It would be nice if there were a good word for u-shaped, and also for a
> > u-shape that curves medially towards the distal ends (sort of like the
> > Greeek letter omega), but if there isn't, then there isn't ,and will I
> > manage anyway.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> > > structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> > > dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate.
> The
> > > former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is
> > more
> > > wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used for
> > > wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more
> steep-sided
> > > depressions.
> > >
> > > Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> > > glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter
> case),
> > > but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific terms,
> > > based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with
> > specific
> > > attributes.
> > >
> > > When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> > > vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I
> bought
> > a
> > > book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but
> wasn't
> > as
> > > easy to use as one might think.
> > >
> > > In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too
> > broad
> > > or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> > > "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> > > precision than that....
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Les Watling
> > > Professor, Dept. of Biology
> > > 216 Edmondson Hall
> > > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> > > Honolulu, HI 96822
> > > Ph. 808-956-8621
> > > Cell: 808-772-9563
> > > e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=StmMMTyuM%2BDGkJwGiuK7NukmZ25yIB4SqW3MbsvcyXY%3D&reserved=0
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990403024&sdata=lXP7pmaJ8cjobqEOMgzPhrDc0W3G%2Bg%2B4K2rloom8jUc%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> > 1987-2020.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=aO7tDsiqeEAckXDlPq2qGcIWDG5lstig2AVDCQab2QI%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=DRzF98z8mtnI1PJRGdSk37ftDPL4LgtVKHySyU8PNDA%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 23:42:17 -0400
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: Dennis During <dcduring at gmail.com>
> Cc: Les Watling <watling at hawaii.edu>,  "Cc:
>         taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] canliculate
> Message-ID:
>         <CADN0ud3_5QNQn+8k29u3-1h=
> fFf7gZWPhDj_-u+LA_ip_KONag at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It is a cross section (transverse) shape. As Mary says, it depends on the
> audience for understanding the terminology. With that in mind I will
> probably have to stick to descriptive adjectives such as a tubular U-shaped
> channel since it is a channel, but neither u or V in cross section, but
> closing over slightly at the top like an inverted omega symbol (but without
> the lateral extensions of the omega symbol). There will be a photo so in
> the end perhaps the words do not mean so much.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:43 PM Dennis During <dcduring at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is the U shape in plan or section?
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 14:17 John Grehan via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> It would be nice if there were a good word for u-shaped, and also for a
> >> u-shape that curves medially towards the distal ends (sort of like the
> >> Greeek letter omega), but if there isn't, then there isn't ,and will I
> >> manage anyway.
> >>
> >> John Grehan
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:06 PM Les Watling via Taxacom <
> >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I was curious about canaliculate being used to describe a U-shaped
> >> > structure so I checked various dictionaries online. One a medical
> >> > dictionary made the distinction between canliculate and valleculate.
> The
> >> > former is more like a canal, i.e., with steep sides, and the latter is
> >> more
> >> > wide valley-like. In the medical dictionary the valleculate is used
> for
> >> > wide depressions and canaliculate for narrower, probably more
> >> steep-sided
> >> > depressions.
> >> >
> >> > Geologists tend to just use U-shaped or V-shaped for valleys carved by
> >> > glaciers (in the former case) or rivers and streams (in the latter
> >> case),
> >> > but it seems that maybe medicine and botany have coined specific
> terms,
> >> > based most likely on Latin words, for structures or features with
> >> specific
> >> > attributes.
> >> >
> >> > When I first started out in taxonomic work, I was concerned that my
> >> > vocabulary of adjectives, in particular, was not very good. So, I
> >> bought a
> >> > book called Bersteins Reverse Dictionary, which helped a lot, but
> >> wasn't as
> >> > easy to use as one might think.
> >> >
> >> > In the end, in taxonomy, words are great if their meaning is not too
> >> broad
> >> > or ambiguous, but I can also agree with Ken Kinman that maybe using
> >> > "U-shaped" is better than trying to come up with a word that has more
> >> > precision than that....
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > Les
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Les Watling
> >> > Professor, Dept. of Biology
> >> > 216 Edmondson Hall
> >> > University of Hawaii at Manoa
> >> > Honolulu, HI 96822
> >> > Ph. 808-956-8621
> >> > Cell: 808-772-9563
> >> > e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >> >
> >> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=aO7tDsiqeEAckXDlPq2qGcIWDG5lstig2AVDCQab2QI%3D&reserved=0
> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >> >
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=DRzF98z8mtnI1PJRGdSk37ftDPL4LgtVKHySyU8PNDA%3D&reserved=0
> >> >
> >> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> >> 1987-2020.
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>
> >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=aO7tDsiqeEAckXDlPq2qGcIWDG5lstig2AVDCQab2QI%3D&reserved=0
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cj.todd%40nhm.ac.uk%7C1a737ba4d98640191a4608d83961ea15%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C1%7C637322439990412980&sdata=DRzF98z8mtnI1PJRGdSk37ftDPL4LgtVKHySyU8PNDA%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> Taxacom Mailing List
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> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 172, Issue 5
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> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
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