[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 176, Issue 3

PHILIP RUNDEL rundel at ucla.edu
Mon Dec 7 11:48:27 CST 2020


On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 9:18 AM <taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
>
> When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
> your reply.
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Filling the world with biodiversity data errors... or
>       copyright infringement? (Donat Agosti)
>    2. "As revenues slide amid pandemic, scientists warn of
>       ‘orphaned’ plant and animal collections" (Miller, Scott)
>    3. Re: "As revenues slide amid pandemic, scientists warn of
>       ‘orphaned’ plant and animal collections" (muscapaul)
>    4. Re: "As revenues slide amid pandemic, scientists warn of
>       ‘orphaned’ plant and animal collections" (John Grehan)
>    5. Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>    6. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Roderic Page)
>    7. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>    8. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Roderic Page)
>    9. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Roger Hyam)
>   10. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Wouter Addink)
>   11. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>   12. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Johnson, Paul)
>   13. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Wouter Addink)
>   14. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>   15. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Buz Wilson)
>   16. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Shorthouse, David)
>   17. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>   18. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Shorthouse, David)
>   19. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Roger Hyam)
>   20. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>   21. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz)
>   22. Re: Forcing ORCID on researchers (Shorthouse, David)
>   23.  Forcing ORCID on researchers (Frank T. Krell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 19:58:14 +0000
> From: Donat Agosti <agosti at amnh.org>
> To: Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Cc: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz  <biotemail at gmail.com>, Tim
>         Robertson <trobertson at gbif.org>, "egloff_bader at bluewin.ch"
>         <egloff_bader at bluewin.ch>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Filling the world with biodiversity data
>         errors... or copyright infringement?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> MN2PR14MB25110E26186A503FDADD8FA4A3CF0 at MN2PR14MB2511.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Carlos
>
>
>
> Here the requested comment in regards of copyright of taxonomic works and
> data therein, access through the Biodiversity Literature Repository, and
> reuse by third parties like GBIF.
>
>
>
> We have explained the basic elements of our copyright policy in Agosti D,
> Egloff W 2009. Taxonomic information exchange and copyright: the Plazi
> approach. BMC Research Notes 2009, [2:53]. DOI: 10.1186/1756-0500-2-53<
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1186/1756-0500-2-53>. Our policy is still the same:
> We extract data under Swiss Law. We make the extracted data available in
> BLR. The original documents are only available if they are declared open or
> if the original document is not copyrightable.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile, we have adopted this process to the revised Swiss copyright law
> that was enacted on April 1st, 2020. We have concluded an extensive
> collective licence agreement with the Swiss collecting society ProLitteris
> b<
> https://prolitteris.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/ProLitteris/Dokumente/Erweiterte_Kollektivlizenz/Announcement_extended_collective_license_ProLitteris-Plazi_2020_Opt-out_form.pdf>y
> which ProLitteris authorises Plazi to re-use all published photos and other
> images for the purpose of indexing and making available the worldwide
> biodiversity literature in the context of BLR. The new regulation refers
> mainly to the extension of copyright protection for photographs.
>
>
>
> As a consequence, all our extracted material is legally made available.
> Our workflow does not infringe copyright in any way. We do not need any
> agreement by any copyright holder, as this agreement, as far as it is
> needed, is replaced by copyright exceptions and limitations in the Swiss
> law or by the extended collective licence granted by ProLitteris.
>
>
>
> It is obvious that the Natural History Museum of Denmark is ruled by
> Danish law and not by the Swiss law. But this is of no interest because
> GBIF does not make use of the information provided by Plazi in the sense of
> European copyright law. By indicating the BLR data provided by Plazi, GBIF
> does not make available any content, but it links to content that is
> already available. The Court of Justice of the European Union has made
> clear, in a whole series of rulings, that linking to a freely accessible
> website, is not a communication to the public and has no significance under
> the aspect of copyright.
>
>
>
> If the material provided by Plazi contains copyright protected works, the
> right holder is indicated in the usual form (© [author's name]). This
> indication has no legal value and it may be erroneous in some cases. It can
> be false because the original source indicates the wrong author. It can
> have been correct in the moment of declaration and become erroneous later
> on, because the copyright has been transferred. Or it is inapplicable
> because the text or the image marked with the ©-sign is not a work in the
> sense of copyright and therefore not copyrightable.
>
>
>
> It is therefore not true that the publication of taxonomic information as
> it is made available in BLR and indirectly in GBIF requires an agreement of
> the "original data owner". First of all, there is no such thing as a "data
> owner", because data cannot be legally owned. Magnolia Press is not a "data
> owner", but a copyright holder. Data can eventually be the subject of an
> intellectual property right, such as copyright, trademark protection or
> patent law. As far as there is no intellectual property right, data are in
> the public domain and can be used by anyone. If data are protected by an
> intellectual property right, the use of these data is allowed when
> authorised by the right holder or by a legal exception or limitation. The
> Plazi workflow is based on such exceptions and limitations as well as on
> the aforementioned extended collective licence accorded by the competent
> collecting society. That's why it is in absolute conformity with copyright
> law and does not constitute any copyright infringement.
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
> Willi Egloff and Donat Agosti
>
>
> From: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com<mailto:
> biotemail at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 10:20 PM
> To: taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:
> taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>; Donat Agosti <agosti at plazi.org
> <mailto:agosti at plazi.org>>; Tim Robertson <trobertson at gbif.org<mailto:
> trobertson at gbif.org>>
> Subject: Re: Filling the world with biodiversity data errors... or
> copyright infringement?
>
> EXTERNAL SENDER
>
> Dear Donat,
> It has been explained in print why the Plazi approach is legal under Swiss
> law. That seems to do the trick for copyrighted content to be displayed on
> the Plazi website. Now, the GBIF Secretariat office (including Informatics)
> is at the Zoological Museum, Natural History Museum of Denmark. It is under
> Danish and EU laws.
> I assume that for the GBIF, Plazi acts as a Data Publisher, a custodian of
> data making it technically available. However, we know that Plazi is not
> the data owner. So Plazi should have declared to GBIF that they have
> permission to make the data available, but this does not seem to be the
> case. Every Data Publisher must warrant GBIF that it has made the necessary
> agreements with the original owners of the data and other material which
> may be subject to a third party's copyright or other similar rights. Plazi
> has avoided this by acting under Swiss law, but EU laws apply while making
> data available through the GBIF network.
> For example, has Zootaxa, which purports to be the owner of 25% of the
> newly described animal taxa published each year, authorized Plazi to
> display their paywalled taxonomic treatments in GBIF? When publishing in
> Zootaxa, the author(s) assigns to Magnolia Press exclusive copyright and
> related rights in the Article, including the right to publish the Work in
> all forms and media including print and all other forms of electronic
> publication or any other types of publication including subsidiary rights
> in all languages. Let's now take a look at one example of how copyright is
> incorrectly attributed by Plazi and consequently by GBIF. The GBIF taxon
> page for Newportia spelaea (https://www.gbif.org/es/species/119592758<
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gbif.org%2Fes%2Fspecies%2F119592758&data=04%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C7d1325548e6e4aca045808d8989a697e%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0%7C0%7C637427136251647136%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sTvVF8A%2BFLVvnPbr0zaPB32ptR1IbFmMdwWyBEplPW0%3D&reserved=0>)
> display the corresponding description text and images, the latter being
> attributed to "© Ázara, Ludson Neves De; Ferreira, Rodrigo Lopes". However,
> this is not the case, the copyright having been transferred to Magnolia
> Press. So, two issues in one are here created. First, display of
> copyrighted text and images by GBIF, BLR, and Zenodo would violate Magnolia
> Press exclusive rights under EU laws, regardless of Plazi legal provision
> under Swiss laws. Second, misattribution of copyright to the authors
> instead of the publisher is in evident conflict with the publisher's
> copyright transferral procedure.
> To make myself clear: I was very surprised when copyrighted taxonomic
> treatments generated by Plazi made it into GBIF. This is a transboundary
> issue, with multiple laws involved, not just Swiss laws. Accepting data
> which has been released under loose Swiss copyright laws into an aggregator
> under European copyright laws seems no other than copyright infringement
> whitewashing. If it is legal for GBIF, BLR, and Zenodo to display
> treatments provided by Plazi, then it would be legal for 500+ Scrachpads,
> several WoRMS databases, and other virtual research environments (VREs) to
> display those treatments and accompanying images as well.
> So, if that is legal, what to do next? Are we all going to happily copy
> the treatments provided by Plazi and display them in our VREs? Or should we
> all register our VREs in Switzerland and start doing what Plazi does?
> Because in one thing I disagree with you. You wrote "Currently the Plazi
> workflow is the only way to get data about new and already known species
> close to the day of publication into GBIF, BLR so it can be widely used".
> That pretty much depends on which kind of data we are talking about.
> Scratchpads are able to send and GBIF is able to ingest taxonomic
> backbones, on a daily basis if GBIF wants. And some Scratchpads are "widely
> used". At least for the basic data that we know is legally free to release,
> Plazi is not the only possible provider. For open access treatments, the
> journals that have implemented the TaxPub standard deserve acknowledgment.
> For copyrighted treatments, Plazi is indeed the only provider, at least
> that I know.
> I would very much like a legal explanation on data reuse of Plazi
> treatments by platforms under European laws. Hopefully it will be one
> affirming that the VREs can legally join this open access revolution on
> taxonomic treatments, whether they are registered in Switzerland or not,
> and that Plazi does not need to fight this battle alone.
> Cheers,
> Carlos
>
> P.S.: The page for individuals to sign the Bouchout Declaration has been
> malfunctioning for a long time. I would be very grateful if someone from
> Plazi could manually sign me in. Thanks in advance!
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix<
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C7d1325548e6e4aca045808d8989a697e%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0%7C0%7C637427136251647136%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yXMHaw4UvziWC120Eq0FQstFfp3Vre9FNDDRUcFBzsQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> ResearchGate profile<
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C7d1325548e6e4aca045808d8989a697e%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0%7C0%7C637427136251657129%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Djp0dgQ4rK0%2FApwZaAI9fKskj8FRTt%2Fj4D2t0cu0MC4%3D&reserved=0
> >
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution<
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C7d1325548e6e4aca045808d8989a697e%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0%7C0%7C637427136251657129%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=hypq6jAF0JKDZUdXj6uK%2FTxzbqsZ%2BnbqP7LreDmKRQM%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:35:02 +0000
> From: "Miller, Scott" <MillerS at si.edu>
> To: Entomological Collections Network Listserve
>         <ECN-L at listserv.unl.edu>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>         <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: [Taxacom] "As revenues slide amid pandemic, scientists warn
>         of ‘orphaned’ plant and animal collections"
> Message-ID:
>         <
> BY5PR12MB485592C6B306F6ECC527582CDACF0 at BY5PR12MB4855.namprd12.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> >From the St Louis Post-Dispatch:
>
>
> https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/as-revenues-slide-amid-pandemic-scientists-warn-of-orphaned-plant-and-animal-collections/article_fe051966-b837-58c4-b0ac-9a29deef6e5b.html
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 22:05:09 +0100
> From: muscapaul <muscapaul at gmail.com>
> To: "Miller, Scott" <MillerS at si.edu>
> Cc: Entomological Collections Network Listserve
>         <ECN-L at listserv.unl.edu>, TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] "As revenues slide amid pandemic, scientists
>         warn of ‘orphaned’ plant and animal collections"
> Message-ID:
>         <CA+Gew0TB8-zizaY26Q7SGWgrqz3yfE8gDdQOmJH+orJOBn=
> yYA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Sorry, 'due to legal reasons' the site cannot be accessed from some
> regions, for example the EU where I am residing...
>
> Paul
>
> Op zo 6 dec. 2020 21:35 schreef Miller, Scott via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
>
> > From the St Louis Post-Dispatch:
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/as-revenues-slide-amid-pandemic-scientists-warn-of-orphaned-plant-and-animal-collections/article_fe051966-b837-58c4-b0ac-9a29deef6e5b.html
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 16:06:28 -0500
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: muscapaul <muscapaul at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Miller, Scott" <MillerS at si.edu>, TAXACOM
>         <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,  Entomological Collections Network
>         Listserve <ECN-L at listserv.unl.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] "As revenues slide amid pandemic, scientists
>         warn of ‘orphaned’ plant and animal collections"
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADN0ud0ajPbPA3ocdcojkd8wUgQ6s90AhVFcXeuXRz95c9paKQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> And here in the US it was necessary to first answer a product
> questionnaire including personal information - which I didn't
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 4:03 PM muscapaul via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, 'due to legal reasons' the site cannot be accessed from some
> > regions, for example the EU where I am residing...
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Op zo 6 dec. 2020 21:35 schreef Miller, Scott via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
> >
> > > From the St Louis Post-Dispatch:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/as-revenues-slide-amid-pandemic-scientists-warn-of-orphaned-plant-and-animal-collections/article_fe051966-b837-58c4-b0ac-9a29deef6e5b.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> > 1987-2020.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 13:36:14 +0200
> From: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
> To: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CACA4WzA9VOip7zVpDjgAMmGCzxOtbdKjSN9vbDEXURpWraD-Ug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Dear Taxacomers,
> I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to be
> strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not welcome to
> force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE identifier
> above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you cannot
> force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped off
> after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same will
> happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a minute.
> Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a flying jump at
> itself." Couldn't agree more.
> Cheers,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:41:56 +0000
> From: Roderic Page <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> To: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Cc: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz  <biotemail at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID: <10026606-A649-48BD-8680-F4F6588F1DA0 at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I’m curious as to why you object to getting an ORCID? Is it an objection
> to identifier sin general, or ORCID in particular?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rod
>
>
> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dear Taxacomers,
> I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to be
> strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not welcome to
> force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE identifier
> above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you cannot
> force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped off
> after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same will
> happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a minute.
> Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a flying jump at
> itself." Couldn't agree more.
> Cheers,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Roderic Page
> Professor of Taxonomy
> Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> Graham Kerr Building
> University of Glasgow
> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>
> Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> Skype:  rdmpage
> Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> LinkedIn:  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> Twitter:  https://twitter.com/rdmpage
> Blog:  https://iphylo.blogspot.com
> ORCID:  https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> Citations:  https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 13:58:50 +0200
> From: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
> To: Roderic Page <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CACA4WzDJqmmpVjcwmxo2OtqEmcNp8MnDkz9JGb85kwd_q6OFWw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Rod,
> There have been many irregularities in expanding ORCID and getting it
> adopted. Some have been discussed here, some I have seen myself. I have no
> time to discuss them all here. In the spotlight, there is this paragraph by
> Wouter Addink, which was really deplorable and which, at least for me,
> closed ORCID as an option:
> "*I am also amazed to see though, that there are still many authors not
> using their ORCID iD in OA publications or maintain their ORCID iD without
> any public information about their publications. I think there might even
> still be researchers who do not have an ORCID iD, although I don't know
> any.*" Well, Wouter, hello there!
> Down to the core, Rod: This is a matter of personal freedom. Whoever forces
> an ID on researchers misses that. And whoever forces ONE ID above all
> others misses that two times. There is more in this world than the narrow
> field of biodiversity informatics.
> Cheers,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
>
>
>
>
> El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 13:41, Roderic Page (<Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> >)
> escribió:
>
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > I’m curious as to why you object to getting an ORCID? Is it an objection
> > to identifier sin general, or ORCID in particular?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> > On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Taxacomers,
> > I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to be
> > strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> > For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not welcome
> to
> > force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE identifier
> > above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> > force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you
> cannot
> > force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped
> off
> > after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same will
> > happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a minute.
> > Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a flying jump
> at
> > itself." Couldn't agree more.
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Roderic Page
> > Professor of Taxonomy
> > Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> > College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> > Graham Kerr Building
> > University of Glasgow
> > Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> >
> > Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> > Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> > Skype:  rdmpage
> > Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > LinkedIn:  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > Twitter:  https://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > Blog:  https://iphylo.blogspot.com
> > ORCID:  https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > Citations:
> https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:38:01 +0000
> From: Roderic Page <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> To: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Cc: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz  <biotemail at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID: <D0ECDE82-20D0-4F35-A5C4-764E98C9312C at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Just to unpack this a little, ORCID isn’t anything to do with biodiversity
> informatics as such, its scope is all academic publishing. You will see the
> requirement for an ORCID appearing in many journals, not just Zootaxa. See
> for example
> https://orcid.org/content/requiring-orcid-publication-workflows-open-letter
> So I think this is an inevitable trend no matter where you chose to publish.
>
> You mention “personal freedom”, it’s not clear to me how your freedom is
> affected by having an ORCID. Is it the ORCID you object to, or the notion
> of having an identifier at all?
>
> Just to be clear, I’m genuinely interested in how people view ORCIDs (and
> other identifiers). And I think that the reason ORCIDs exist is not
> primarily for the benefit of individual researchers, although one could
> argue that it is useful to be able to clearly identify yourself to avoid
> being conflated with another researcher, and having your academic CV
> automatically generated.
>
> Rather, I think the main drivers come from the publishing industry,
> funders, and academia, who see value in being able to identify people, and
> hence accurately measure their academic contributions (be it authoring,
> reviewing, getting grants, etc.). People like me who work in trying to link
> data together tend to view ORCIDs positively (sorting out the mess of
> people names in databases will be much easier if everyone had - and used -
> an ORCID). I appreciate that not everyone sees them this way.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rod
>
>
>
> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:58, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <
> biotemail at gmail.com<mailto:biotemail at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Rod,
> There have been many irregularities in expanding ORCID and getting it
> adopted. Some have been discussed here, some I have seen myself. I have no
> time to discuss them all here. In the spotlight, there is this paragraph by
> Wouter Addink, which was really deplorable and which, at least for me,
> closed ORCID as an option:
> "I am also amazed to see though, that there are still many authors not
> using their ORCID iD in OA publications or maintain their ORCID iD without
> any public information about their publications. I think there might even
> still be researchers who do not have an ORCID iD, although I don't know
> any." Well, Wouter, hello there!
> Down to the core, Rod: This is a matter of personal freedom. Whoever
> forces an ID on researchers misses that. And whoever forces ONE ID above
> all others misses that two times. There is more in this world than the
> narrow field of biodiversity informatics.
> Cheers,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix<http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile<
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution<
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
>
>
>
>
> El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 13:41, Roderic Page (<Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> <mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>>) escribió:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I’m curious as to why you object to getting an ORCID? Is it an objection
> to identifier sin general, or ORCID in particular?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rod
>
>
> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dear Taxacomers,
> I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to be
> strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not welcome to
> force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE identifier
> above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you cannot
> force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped off
> after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same will
> happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a minute.
> Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a flying jump at
> itself." Couldn't agree more.
> Cheers,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org<http://taxacom.markmail.org/>
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Roderic Page
> Professor of Taxonomy
> Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> Graham Kerr Building
> University of Glasgow
> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>
> Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> Skype:  rdmpage
> Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> LinkedIn:  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> Twitter:  https://twitter.com/rdmpage
> Blog:  https://iphylo.blogspot.com<https://iphylo.blogspot.com/>
> ORCID:  https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> Citations:  https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:38:51 +0000
> From: Roger Hyam <RHyam at rbge.org.uk>
> To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz  <biotemail at gmail.com>
> Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID: <AF73A32B-3154-4412-9435-D7387A12CA08 at rbge.org.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Carlos,
>
> I celebrate your right not to have an ORCID.
>
> I also celebrate the rights of journals and other people providing
> services to require their users to have one.
>
> Liberty works both ways.
>
> Roger
>
> p.s. It would be useful for us naives to hear your specific objection to
> ORCID over, for example, Research Gate (which you rate so highly as to have
> in your email signature) or any other system of identifying people in the
> research sphere.
>
>
> > On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Taxacomers,
> > I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to be
> > strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> > For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not welcome
> to
> > force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE identifier
> > above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> > force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you
> cannot
> > force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped
> off
> > after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same will
> > happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a minute.
> > Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a flying jump
> at
> > itself." Couldn't agree more.
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Crhyam%40rbge.org.uk%7C9fa3980ddd3b4f67118d08d89aa458b2%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429377940550994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=g1UcwVSGL51Z9iZtCM2U7Sfl85TYIDVpKa%2FruUrKEus%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7Crhyam%40rbge.org.uk%7C9fa3980ddd3b4f67118d08d89aa458b2%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429377940550994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DwyOitQXAjVhhgyzBQyVscds5j6PPje1izLx7wyoSc0%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7Crhyam%40rbge.org.uk%7C9fa3980ddd3b4f67118d08d89aa458b2%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429377940550994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5qu4imt0YluF8sk7XmFURYvkDZN%2Bpg7sYjLcx%2F7Pci4%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Crhyam%40rbge.org.uk%7C9fa3980ddd3b4f67118d08d89aa458b2%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429377940550994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yuEAG0fYAThCVABmi3h6Y%2FtEwTFlJVrkTbuK6I8HGCc%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Crhyam%40rbge.org.uk%7C9fa3980ddd3b4f67118d08d89aa458b2%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429377940550994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=v%2FPWCiBhauBReJmKImrO4rg0OIjpyAAChl62hoh3Qjo%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 14:06:28 +0100
> From: Wouter Addink <wouter.addink at naturalis.nl>
> To: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
> Cc: Roderic Page <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>, Taxa com
>         <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID:
>         <CAAYUpAaNbk1=2h7dgMm=
> Xqon3yHGUpzfTsQWMir3tBwzsbyzwQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Not sure where this is coming from but you seem to not like having an orcid
> id? Nobody is forcing you to have one. Same as nobody is forcing you to be
> a researcher or to publish in zootaxa or use any tools or funders that
> require them. If you don't like zootaxa because it uses orcid then don't
> use it. But it should not be a matter of liking VS not liking but rather
> costs/time VS benefits.
>
> In case you have any interest in knowing the benefits of orcid ids, I am
> happy to repeat them here:
>
> The nice thing about orcid ids is that you are in full control over it, and
> it even does not cost you money. You better give information about you
> yourself than have someone else do it for you and you decide what
> information to expose to whom. It also helps in getting personal or
> institutional acknowledgement for publications for who need that for their
> careers or funding.
>
> Orcid is community driven so if you not like some aspects of it you can
> change it when you are part of the community. It is made by researchers for
> researchers, not something invented by a government or funder or commerce.
> This is important because having multiple id systems for the same thing
> defeat the purpose, but if using only one then the research community needs
> to be in full control over it.
>
> Kind regards,
> Wouter
>
>
>
>
> Op ma 7 dec. 2020 12:59 schreef Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
>
> > Hi Rod,
> > There have been many irregularities in expanding ORCID and getting it
> > adopted. Some have been discussed here, some I have seen myself. I have
> no
> > time to discuss them all here. In the spotlight, there is this paragraph
> by
> > Wouter Addink, which was really deplorable and which, at least for me,
> > closed ORCID as an option:
> > "*I am also amazed to see though, that there are still many authors not
> > using their ORCID iD in OA publications or maintain their ORCID iD
> without
> > any public information about their publications. I think there might even
> > still be researchers who do not have an ORCID iD, although I don't know
> > any.*" Well, Wouter, hello there!
> > Down to the core, Rod: This is a matter of personal freedom. Whoever
> forces
> > an ID on researchers misses that. And whoever forces ONE ID above all
> > others misses that two times. There is more in this world than the narrow
> > field of biodiversity informatics.
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 13:41, Roderic Page (<
> Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> > >)
> > escribió:
> >
> > > Hi Carlos,
> > >
> > > I’m curious as to why you object to getting an ORCID? Is it an
> objection
> > > to identifier sin general, or ORCID in particular?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Rod
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Taxacomers,
> > > I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to
> be
> > > strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> > > For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not
> welcome
> > to
> > > force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE
> identifier
> > > above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> > > force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you
> > cannot
> > > force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped
> > off
> > > after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same
> will
> > > happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a
> minute.
> > > Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a flying jump
> > at
> > > itself." Couldn't agree more.
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > Finland
> > > Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> > > ResearchGate profile
> > > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> > > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> > 1987-2020.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > Roderic Page
> > > Professor of Taxonomy
> > > Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> > > College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> > > Graham Kerr Building
> > > University of Glasgow
> > > Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> > >
> > > Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> > > Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> > > Skype:  rdmpage
> > > Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > > LinkedIn:  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > > Twitter:  https://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > > Blog:  https://iphylo.blogspot.com
> > > ORCID:  https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > > Citations:
> > https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > > ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 15:23:45 +0200
> From: Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
> To: Roderic Page <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>, RHyam at rbge.org.uk,
>         Wouter Addink <wouter.addink at naturalis.nl>
> Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> Message-ID:
>         <CACA4WzByHZDrrBy9Ni9pqxnnFNL4Fxt4Mk=
> tU7ZCzdSy9-mA0w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Rod,
> "*Rather, I think the main drivers come from the publishing industry,
> funders, and academia, who see value in being able to identify people, and
> hence accurately measure their academic contributions (be it authoring,
> reviewing, getting grants, etc.).*"
> I agree about the main drivers and I will comment on this. To save me some
> time, please introduce to this list the ORCID funding model, with the
> history of early funders and today's main funders. That's where we should
> start.
>
> "You mention “personal freedom”, it’s not clear to me how your freedom is
> affected by having an ORCID. Is it the ORCID you object to, or the notion
> of having an identifier at all?" My freedom includes the freedom to choose
> having an identifier or not, and my freedom includes which identifiers from
> all those available I am going to choose. My English is not good, but I
> expected that it was enough to convey those ideas. An increasing number of
> journals are forcing researchers to have identifiers, and to specifically
> have ORCID. It is pretty significant when megajournals or publishers do
> that. As the snowball effect increases, we are left with the option of
> having an identifier (and only ORCID!) or not having it and not publishing
> anymore. In this context, preservation of freedom means to recommend good
> practices and to have the technical capability of implementing them, but
> freedom is not preserved by forcing adoption of a practice which is not
> essential to the scientific content of the publications.
>
> Dear Roger,
> "*for example, Research Gate (which you rate so highly as to have in your
> email signature)*". Having a platform in an email signature does not mean
> that there is endorsement to that platform. That is your personal
> interpretation. I was free to choose whether to have RG or not, and even
> more, I also could choose and have an Academia profile as well. No journal
> has demanded me to get any of those accounts. Moreover, I previously had a
> Publons account in my email signature. After Publons was bought by
> Clarivate Analytics, I deleted my Publons account and demanded Clarivate to
> wipe off all my data.
>
> Dear Wouter,
> About the freedom of choice, see the snowball effect above. About the ORCID
> not costing money, you are very naive if you believe that. Don't you think
> that I haven't noticed Elsevier's long tentacles behind ORCID, and don't
> you think that I haven't noticed how they squeeze money from whole
> countries by implementing ORCID into their service package bundle,
> including Pure. I believe that I don't need to remind anyone here that
> Elsevier makes more profit than oil companies and that it is well-known for
> its abusive pricing and bullying behavior. We are all paying for ORCID, and
> we pay two times. First, we pay with our work, manually curating and
> linking our research to us, data which publishers happily collect. Then, we
> pay a second time, when publishers squeeze the cost of ORCID implementation
> out of us, and with astonishing profits. I am not going to be one more
> researcher supporting Elsevier's statistics. Thank you!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
>
>
>
>
> El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 14:38, Roderic Page (<Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> >)
> escribió:
>
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > Just to unpack this a little, ORCID isn’t anything to do with
> biodiversity
> > informatics as such, its scope is all academic publishing. You will see
> the
> > requirement for an ORCID appearing in many journals, not just Zootaxa.
> See
> > for example
> >
> https://orcid.org/content/requiring-orcid-publication-workflows-open-letter
> So
> > I think this is an inevitable trend no matter where you chose to publish.
> >
> > You mention “personal freedom”, it’s not clear to me how your freedom is
> > affected by having an ORCID. Is it the ORCID you object to, or the notion
> > of having an identifier at all?
> >
> > Just to be clear, I’m genuinely interested in how people view ORCIDs (and
> > other identifiers). And I think that the reason ORCIDs exist is not
> > primarily for the benefit of individual researchers, although one could
> > argue that it is useful to be able to clearly identify yourself to avoid
> > being conflated with another researcher, and having your academic CV
> > automatically generated.
> >
> > Rather, I think the main drivers come from the publishing industry,
> > funders, and academia, who see value in being able to identify people,
> and
> > hence accurately measure their academic contributions (be it authoring,
> > reviewing, getting grants, etc.). People like me who work in trying to
> link
> > data together tend to view ORCIDs positively (sorting out the mess of
> > people names in databases will be much easier if everyone had - and used
> -
> > an ORCID). I appreciate that not everyone sees them this way.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:58, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <
> > biotemail at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rod,
> > There have been many irregularities in expanding ORCID and getting it
> > adopted. Some have been discussed here, some I have seen myself. I have
> no
> > time to discuss them all here. In the spotlight, there is this paragraph
> by
> > Wouter Addink, which was really deplorable and which, at least for me,
> > closed ORCID as an option:
> > "*I am also amazed to see though, that there are still many authors not
> > using their ORCID iD in OA publications or maintain their ORCID iD
> without
> > any public information about their publications. I think there might even
> > still be researchers who do not have an ORCID iD, although I don't know
> > any.*" Well, Wouter, hello there!
> > Down to the core, Rod: This is a matter of personal freedom. Whoever
> > forces an ID on researchers misses that. And whoever forces ONE ID above
> > all others misses that two times. There is more in this world than the
> > narrow field of biodiversity informatics.
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 13:41, Roderic Page (<
> Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>)
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Hi Carlos,
> >>
> >> I’m curious as to why you object to getting an ORCID? Is it an objection
> >> to identifier sin general, or ORCID in particular?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Rod
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Taxacomers,
> >> I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has decided to be
> >> strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> >> For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not welcome
> >> to
> >> force an identifier on researchers, and even less to force ONE
> identifier
> >> above all others, without alternatives. Also, it is useless. You might
> >> force researchers to have an ID at the time of publication, but you
> cannot
> >> force researchers to keep it. I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped
> >> off
> >> after publication. And every time you force me to get one, the same will
> >> happen again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a
> minute.
> >> Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take

-- 
Philip W. Rundel
Distinguished Professor Emeritus
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of California (UCLA)
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