[Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers

Michael Heads m.j.heads at gmail.com
Mon Dec 7 12:25:32 CST 2020


who pays for orcid? They're obviously spending a ton of money.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 7:22 AM Tony Rees via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> Hi Carlos, all,
>
> Unlike Carlos I do not have a problem with OrcID (hi Carlos!) or other
> identifier systems - in fact I use a range of them on the basis that each
> has its own benefits, and I can live with any downsides... my views are
> expressed more fully in a comment on one of Rod Page's iPhylo blog posts,
> see
>
> https://iphylo.blogspot.com/2020/04/wikidata-and-bibliography-of-life-in.html
> ,
> where I wrote:
> ---------------
>
> [One of my processes for personal data management is to] "put lists of my
> publications on multiple externally hosted sites that specialise in this
> stuff and expect to persist (NOT a personal website), using the LOCKSS
> principle (Lots of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe), and keep the lists updated -
> at present I use:
>
> -- Google Scholar http://scholar.google.com.a...
> <
> http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D3I7QbQQAAAAJ%3A6HFakquLPRSeDqyQwo3ZPn-MVnk&cuid=117200
> >
> -- ResearcherID: http://www.researcherid.com...
> <
> http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researcherid.com%2Frid%2FK-9837-2015%3AJmlZAxysE5tJoh8NtcapccydL2c&cuid=117200
> >
> -- OrcID http://orcid.org/0000-0003-...
> <
> http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1887-5211%3AO1Y_wVhf8eysyLVAKDMXYFq7lp8&cuid=117200
> >
> -- Researchgate https://www.researchgate.ne...
> <
> https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FTony_Rees2%2Fpublications%3AgBBOy3c-pJUslmGz4Y0WsTTo-nM&cuid=117200
> >
> -- academia.edu
> <
> http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Facademia.edu%3A2ondROJrCIzbBxAwJceGw__41yY&cuid=117200
> >
>  https://independent.academi...
> <
> https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Findependent.academia.edu%2FTonyRees2%3AHRIeX8IuXcFq0axTJ-KpUSkA6l4&cuid=117200
> >
>
> ...this way there is at least a chance that a future interested person
> might find them, via one of these routes."
> ---------------
>
> I do not feel forced to use OrcID, it is something that I see of some value
> to me and those that might be interested in discovering my work, either now
> or after I have left the planet... But I appreciate that not everybody has
> the same view on this.
>
> Regards to all - Tony
>
> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> https://about.me/TonyRees
> www.irmng.org
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 05:04, Wouter Addink via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > A person name is not a persistent unique identifier, it is not unique
> > enough and also not always persistent so you cannot compare them with an
> > ORCID ID.
> >
> > Unique identifiers themselves are pretty harmless, but they enable
> linking
> > of data and that can have ethical issues.
> >
> >  A passport ID is needed to travel and ip addresses are needed to surf
> the
> > internet. Similarly a person identifier is needed in research to
> identify a
> > researcher. So far no problem but when passport id's, ip addresses and
> > internet data are linked by a government things can get nasty.
> >
> > For ORCID id's I think the problem is not so big because it is not
> directly
> > possible to connect to a governmental person identifier like a passport
> > number.
> >
> > But imagine a regime does not like publications about climate change and
> > uses ORCID to force your organisation to fire you because they used ORCID
> > to find out that you published about climate change and who you are
> working
> > for?
> >
> > Luckily you could hide these publications or your Organisation in ORCID
> so
> > you have at least some control. But this is not a problem of the
> > identifiers but a problem of governments and regulation. Stopping to use
> > passport id's, ip addresses or orcids is not a very workable solution.
> >
> > W.
> >
> > Op ma 7 dec. 2020 18:17 schreef Frank T. Krell via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
> >
> > >
> > > Ethical implications of getting a unique identifier? You were forced by
> > > your parents or your country of origin to have a name. It is somewhat
> > > useful, isn't it?
> > > Having a unique identifier is just a step further in the direction of
> > > clarity: There are over 70 people called Carlos Muñoz on Research Gate,
> > for
> > > example. There is an even bigger problem with Chinese names, and China
> is
> > > now leading in output of scientific papers. Personal proper names are
> not
> > > unique. The problem gets inflated if journals (or authors) initialize
> > their
> > > first name. ORCID gives you the freedom to publish in a journal that
> > > initializes your first name, or does not consider your middle names,
> and
> > > you are still identifiable.
> > > The whole business of publication is bringing yourself into the public
> > and
> > > giving up your privacy to some extent. This is one aspect of our
> > existence
> > > as scientists.
> > > Your passport has a unique number, too. Would you reject it and rather
> > not
> > > travel because it is forced onto you? That is your choice.
> > > Unique identifiers are a good thing in science (and other aspects of
> life
> > > in society). There are lots of bad things to fight, but I wouldn't lose
> > my
> > > sleep about unique identifiers.
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
> > >
> > > Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief Commissioner and
> > Councillor,
> > > International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature Department of
> Zoology
> > > Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> > > 2001 Colorado Blvd
> > > Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> > > Frank.krell at dmns.org
> > > Phone 303.370.8244
> > > Fax 303.331.6492
> > > https://www.dmns.org/science/zoology/staff/frank-krell/
> > >
> > > We are OPEN and can't wait to welcome you back! Escape to the Museum
> and
> > > play the day away in "The Art of the Brick" and "Dogs! A Science
> > > Tail."  Special ticket required for each exhibition in addition to
> timed
> > > entry into the Museum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Carlos
> > > Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom
> > > Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 8:31 AM
> > > To: Roger Hyam <RHyam at rbge.org.uk>
> > > Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forcing ORCID on researchers
> > >
> > > What all this thread has confirmed is how easily the smartest people on
> > > the planet can miss the ethical implications of their choices. Leaves
> > > little hope for those of use that are not so smart.
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > Finland
> > > Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> > > ResearchGate profile
> > > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> > > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 17:23, Roger Hyam (<RHyam at rbge.org.uk>)
> > escribió:
> > >
> > > > Well folks I’m building a botanical system that requires an ORCID to
> > > > login and all this thread has done is confirm I’ve made the right
> > > decision.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Roger
> > > >
> > > > On 7 Dec 2020, at 14:38, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <
> > > > biotemail at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Wouter,
> > > > The ORCID initiative is not-for-profit, but the implementation is
> not.
> > > > ORCID has for-profit members paying membership fees and then 1)
> > > > building for-profit tools on top of ORCID IDs and 2) making ORCID IDs
> > > > mandatory in journals. Those tools and journals are then sold back to
> > > > public institutions, priced with profit margins of up to 37%, higher
> > > > than the profit margins of oil companies. That is why it is so
> > > > counterproductive, expensive and unfair to turn anything into a
> > > > standard when the full not-for-profit implementation cycle is far
> from
> > > > existing. In an ideal world, the full implementation cycle, with
> ORCID
> > > > expenses, tools and journals would be not-for-profit. Then I would
> > > > have no ethical problem in getting an ORCID.
> > > > Forceful adoption happens when the institutions buying a tool get an
> > > > ORCID-based added service in a pricing bundle that they cannot refuse
> > > > unless they refuse the whole package. Forceful adoption happens when
> > > > all or most of the journals where one can publish in demand an ORCID.
> > > > If you cannot see that using and promoting ORCID is not ethically
> > > > neutral, then you should stop doing both things.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, I don't expect you to easily find the footprints of
> > > > Elsevier, Nature Publishing and Thomson Reuters in nowadays ORCID.
> You
> > > > will have to look deeper into the past, even before ORCID was
> founded.
> > > > Have fun with your reading!
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > > Finland
> > > > Myriatrix
> > > > <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyri
> > > > atrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606
> > > >
> f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C6
> > > >
> 37429487178399690%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi
> > > >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TfsbmT7wrvRC%2BHu1
> > > > B9DBtxE%2FgaQUUTsFU%2FjVjunxhMM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > > ResearchGate profile
> > > > <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
> > > > .researchgate.net
> %2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7CRHy
> > > > am%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7
> > > >
> b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178409688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
> > > >
> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1
> > > >
> 000&sdata=wz%2FSc%2F6nWcXrARq%2BHlPQ7ERGJtEz%2BtkbDxF2%2Fq1KAWU%3D&res
> > > > erved=0>
> > > > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > > <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
> > > > .facebook.com
> %2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbg
> > > > e.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74
> > > >
> 158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178409688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> > > >
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdat
> > > > a=l6r9ffI2PTzQA4RycdkWZNfh7nfscZPmBOis2uC29Aw%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 16:19, Wouter Addink
> > > > (<wouter.addink at naturalis.nl>)
> > > > escribió:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Carlos,
> > > >> I did not say that orcid ids do not cost money, I said they do not
> > > >> cost you as a researcher money. Every persistent identifier system
> > > costs money.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am no financial expert, but their tax statements are online and it
> > > >> looks to me like the main income is from membership fees, orcid has
> > > >> over
> > > >> 1000 members. Most of them probably universities. There is income
> > > >> from grants and sponsorship too and elsevier is one of 17 platinum
> > > sponsors.
> > > >> Most of these sponsorships are only foundational loans though.
> > > >> Springer and Plos are in the board, I do not see Elsevier there, but
> > > >> I think publishers should as stakeholders be part of the board (but
> > > >> not majority). According to orcid bylaws the board is required to
> > > >> have a majority of individuals from non-profit members and the board
> > > >> always includes 2 elected researchers. So I see nothing in the
> > > >> funding or governance model that worries me and I see no evidence
> of a
> > > major role from elsevier either.
> > > >>
> > > >> Kind regards
> > > >> Wouter
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Op ma 7 dec. 2020 14:23 schreef Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <
> > > >> biotemail at gmail.com>:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi Rod,
> > > >>> "*Rather, I think the main drivers come from the publishing
> > > >>> industry, funders, and academia, who see value in being able to
> > > >>> identify people, and hence accurately measure their academic
> > > >>> contributions (be it authoring, reviewing, getting grants, etc.).*"
> > > >>> I agree about the main drivers and I will comment on this. To save
> > > >>> me some time, please introduce to this list the ORCID funding
> model,
> > > >>> with the history of early funders and today's main funders. That's
> > > >>> where we should start.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "You mention “personal freedom”, it’s not clear to me how your
> > > >>> freedom is affected by having an ORCID. Is it the ORCID you object
> > > >>> to, or the notion of having an identifier at all?" My freedom
> > > >>> includes the freedom to choose having an identifier or not, and my
> > > >>> freedom includes which identifiers from all those available I am
> > > >>> going to choose. My English is not good, but I expected that it was
> > > >>> enough to convey those ideas. An increasing number of journals are
> > > >>> forcing researchers to have identifiers, and to specifically have
> > > >>> ORCID. It is pretty significant when megajournals or publishers do
> > > >>> that. As the snowball effect increases, we are left with the option
> > > >>> of having an identifier (and only ORCID!) or not having it and not
> > > >>> publishing anymore. In this context, preservation of freedom means
> > > >>> to recommend good practices and to have the technical capability of
> > > >>> implementing them, but freedom is not preserved by forcing adoption
> > > >>> of a practice which is not essential to the scientific content of
> the
> > > publications.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Dear Roger,
> > > >>> "*for example, Research Gate (which you rate so highly as to have
> in
> > > >>> your email signature)*". Having a platform in an email signature
> > > >>> does not mean that there is endorsement to that platform. That is
> > > >>> your personal interpretation. I was free to choose whether to have
> > > >>> RG or not, and even more, I also could choose and have an Academia
> > > >>> profile as well. No journal has demanded me to get any of those
> > > >>> accounts. Moreover, I previously had a Publons account in my email
> > > >>> signature. After Publons was bought by Clarivate Analytics, I
> > > >>> deleted my Publons account and demanded Clarivate to wipe off all
> my
> > > data.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Dear Wouter,
> > > >>> About the freedom of choice, see the snowball effect above. About
> > > >>> the ORCID not costing money, you are very naive if you believe
> that.
> > > >>> Don't you think that I haven't noticed Elsevier's long tentacles
> > > >>> behind ORCID, and don't you think that I haven't noticed how they
> > > >>> squeeze money from whole countries by implementing ORCID into their
> > > >>> service package bundle, including Pure. I believe that I don't need
> > > >>> to remind anyone here that Elsevier makes more profit than oil
> > > >>> companies and that it is well-known for its abusive pricing and
> > > >>> bullying behavior. We are all paying for ORCID, and we pay two
> > > >>> times. First, we pay with our work, manually curating and linking
> > > >>> our research to us, data which publishers happily collect. Then, we
> > > >>> pay a second time, when publishers squeeze the cost of ORCID
> > > >>> implementation out of us, and with astonishing profits. I am not
> > going
> > > to be one more researcher supporting Elsevier's statistics. Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > >>> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > >>> FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > >>> Finland
> > > >>> Myriatrix
> > > >>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmy
> > > >>> riatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a50
> > > >>>
> 1606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7
> > > >>>
> C0%7C637429487178419675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> > > >>>
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eAMDYpcu
> > > >>> B3dEXEmqREe5CJXjuqas%2FblUBjA4EK9nmIQ%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>> ResearchGate profile
> > > >>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw
> > > >>> ww.researchgate.net
> %2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7
> > > >>> CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb0017
> > > >>>
> 5e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178419675%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
> > > >>>
> bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
> > > >>>
> Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=7fYQMcW1IWkSdZOcGQXyw9j8DWZJe0zfglLEOUfkZT8%3D&r
> > > >>> eserved=0>
> > > >>> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > >>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw
> > > >>> ww.facebook.com
> %2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%4
> > > >>> 0rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7
> > > >>>
> b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178429673%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
> > > >>>
> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7
> > > >>>
> C1000&sdata=H1as0GCDdXbo4uQcwMsBh5H0ppX%2FlU5Qi0g3AV%2B0h%2F0%3D&res
> > > >>> erved=0>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 14:38, Roderic Page (<
> > > >>> Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>) escribió:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Hi Carlos,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Just to unpack this a little, ORCID isn’t anything to do with
> > > >>>> biodiversity informatics as such, its scope is all academic
> > > >>>> publishing. You will see the requirement for an ORCID appearing in
> > > >>>> many journals, not just Zootaxa. See for example
> > > >>>>
> https://orcid.org/content/requiring-orcid-publication-workflows-ope
> > > >>>> n-letter
> > > >>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>> orcid.org
> > >
> >
> %2Fcontent%2Frequiring-orcid-publication-workflows-open-letter&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%
> > > 40rbge.org.uk
> >
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178429673%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CoLrp%2BUeMeSkRvxLgW5m99uRUcPjqxWdVC4yWu85dUw%3D&reserved=0>
> > > So I think this is an inevitable trend no matter where you chose to
> > publish.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> You mention “personal freedom”, it’s not clear to me how your
> > > >>>> freedom is affected by having an ORCID. Is it the ORCID you object
> > > >>>> to, or the notion of having an identifier at all?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Just to be clear, I’m genuinely interested in how people view
> > > >>>> ORCIDs (and other identifiers). And I think that the reason ORCIDs
> > > >>>> exist is not primarily for the benefit of individual researchers,
> > > >>>> although one could argue that it is useful to be able to clearly
> > > >>>> identify yourself to avoid being conflated with another
> researcher,
> > > >>>> and having your academic CV automatically generated.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Rather, I think the main drivers come from the publishing
> industry,
> > > >>>> funders, and academia, who see value in being able to identify
> > > >>>> people, and hence accurately measure their academic contributions
> > > >>>> (be it authoring, reviewing, getting grants, etc.). People like me
> > > >>>> who work in trying to link data together tend to view ORCIDs
> > > >>>> positively (sorting out the mess of people names in databases will
> > > >>>> be much easier if everyone had - and used - an ORCID). I
> appreciate
> > > that not everyone sees them this way.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Rod
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:58, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz <
> > > >>>> biotemail at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Hi Rod,
> > > >>>> There have been many irregularities in expanding ORCID and getting
> > > >>>> it adopted. Some have been discussed here, some I have seen
> myself.
> > > >>>> I have no time to discuss them all here. In the spotlight, there
> is
> > > >>>> this paragraph by Wouter Addink, which was really deplorable and
> > > >>>> which, at least for me, closed ORCID as an option:
> > > >>>> "*I am also amazed to see though, that there are still many
> authors
> > > >>>> not using their ORCID iD in OA publications or maintain their
> ORCID
> > > >>>> iD without any public information about their publications. I
> think
> > > >>>> there might even still be researchers who do not have an ORCID iD,
> > > >>>> although I don't know any.*" Well, Wouter, hello there!
> > > >>>> Down to the core, Rod: This is a matter of personal freedom.
> > > >>>> Whoever forces an ID on researchers misses that. And whoever
> forces
> > > >>>> ONE ID above all others misses that two times. There is more in
> > > >>>> this world than the narrow field of biodiversity informatics.
> > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > >>>> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > >>>> FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > >>>> Finland
> > > >>>> Myriatrix
> > > >>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fm
> > > >>>> yriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a
> > > >>>>
> 501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C
> > > >>>>
> 0%7C0%7C637429487178429673%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> > > >>>>
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ac4
> > > >>>> gjrlxYk54MoMc9ZDAowAXdXrSejUnVfYRikr5D4o%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>> ResearchGate profile
> > > >>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>> www.researchgate.net
> %2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01
> > > >>>> %7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb0
> > > >>>>
> 0175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178439669%7CUnknown%7C
> > > >>>>
> TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
> > > >>>>
> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UdekM%2FknnKnabfnpcs1nX4g9o9DM5ou%2BKfDsqH
> > > >>>> wx8ec%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > >>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>> www.facebook.com
> %2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam
> > > >>>> %40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b
> > > >>>>
> 7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178439669%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
> > > >>>>
> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
> > > >>>>
> %3D%7C1000&sdata=wpyrCxtuOLYKtvr8PiBaORuuxLJ1ss0e8LLWPoOl6Q8%3D&res
> > > >>>> erved=0>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> El lun, 7 dic 2020 a las 13:41, Roderic Page (<
> > > >>>> Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>) escribió:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Hi Carlos,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I’m curious as to why you object to getting an ORCID? Is it an
> > > >>>>> objection to identifier sin general, or ORCID in particular?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Rod
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:36, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via
> Taxacom
> > > >>>>> < taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Dear Taxacomers,
> > > >>>>> I have been informed today by a co-author that Zootaxa has
> decided
> > > >>>>> to be strict and to enforce ORCID for all authors.
> > > >>>>> For all you journal editors and owners in this list: You are not
> > > >>>>> welcome to force an identifier on researchers, and even less to
> > > >>>>> force ONE identifier above all others, without alternatives.
> Also,
> > > >>>>> it is useless. You might force researchers to have an ID at the
> > > >>>>> time of publication, but you cannot force researchers to keep it.
> > > >>>>> I will make sure that my ORCID gets wiped off after publication.
> > > >>>>> And every time you force me to get one, the same will happen
> > > >>>>> again. As the platform says, getting an ORCID just takes a
> minute.
> > > >>>>> Anthony Gill previously wrote: "My take is ORCID can take a
> flying
> > > >>>>> jump at itself." Couldn't agree more.
> > > >>>>> Cheers,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > >>>>> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > >>>>> FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > >>>>> Finland
> > > >>>>> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>>> myriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C4
> > > >>>>>
> 2a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4
> > > >>>>>
> %7C0%7C0%7C637429487178449663%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> > > >>>>>
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdat
> > > >>>>> a=gYA83w6ok7p7RTgQjKbgcEkFBw9Rn%2B5bZn4FuJnMzPg%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> >
> > > >>>>> ResearchGate profile
> > > >>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Fwww.researchgate.net
> %2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C
> > > >>>>> 01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63
> > > >>>>>
> bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178449663%7CUnknow
> > > >>>>>
> n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
> > > >>>>>
> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=KK7rqXjGye5FQTLjv4zV%2BufHRnKOmVN%2B
> > > >>>>> oKl4vbc5wp8%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> >
> > > >>>>> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Fwww.facebook.com
> %2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHy
> > > >>>>> am%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e
> > > >>>>>
> 46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178459658%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
> > > >>>>>
> bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC
> > > >>>>>
> I6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=rAx3lxLm9wYkgKD%2ByoeeIYXvX4E3ki6O5STfaH3UrY
> > > >>>>> Y%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> >
> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:
> > > >>>>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu For list information; to subscribe or
> > > unsubscribe, visit:
> > > >>>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>>> mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> %2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=0
> > > >>>>> 4%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7C
> > > >>>>>
> bb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178459658%7CUn
> > > >>>>>
> known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
> > > >>>>>
> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=weZ%2ByIjHK2317WgQqu5hHlJcmi6HX5
> > > >>>>> Purqr3zAShrAA%3D&reserved=0> You can reach the person managing
> the
> > > >>>>> list at:
> > > >>>>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > >>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > >>>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>>> taxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a50
> > > >>>>>
> 1606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0
> > > >>>>>
> %7C0%7C637429487178469649%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> > > >>>>>
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=KT
> > > >>>>> tKhndeYGo5FEZzxD70Nr4AcWozdNWmRdbeuwEoGD8%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> > > >>>>> 1987-2020.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>> Roderic Page
> > > >>>>> Professor of Taxonomy
> > > >>>>> Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine
> > > >>>>> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences Graham Kerr
> > > >>>>> Building University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Email:  Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk
> > > >>>>> Tel:  +44 141 330 4778
> > > >>>>> Skype:  rdmpage
> > > >>>>> Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > > >>>>> www.facebook.com%2Frdmpage&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42
> > > >>>>>
> a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%
> > > >>>>>
> 7C0%7C0%7C637429487178469649%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL
> > > >>>>>
> jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata
> > > >>>>> =8X1E6P6B%2BVAW4Tpc7nDDN8SDK9f41gNd8nsW3L6pgyM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> LinkedIn:  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Fuk.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Frdmpage&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%
> 40rbge.org.uk
> > > >>>>>
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e
> > > >>>>>
> 4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178479648%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> > > >>>>>
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&
> > > >>>>> sdata=FSAONn5ROpPIdKfwYiHkudmNOxBSgw9FkQBGzRqAAeU%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> Twitter:  https://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Ftwitter.com%2Frdmpage&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501
> > > >>>>>
> 606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%
> > > >>>>>
> 7C0%7C637429487178479648%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM
> > > >>>>>
> DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=fS4
> > > >>>>> ruaEKW6VLmntErW0PJwmJHeQgrq0pqcH5bA0dE9Q%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> Blog:  https://iphylo.blogspot.com
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Fiphylo.blogspot.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a50
> > > >>>>>
> 1606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0
> > > >>>>>
> %7C0%7C637429487178489643%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> > > >>>>>
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Lq
> > > >>>>> 2nhAIM%2F%2FKlp0smcCZS6aMDB7fAFPa2oOa7MQt0vko%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>> ORCID:  https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>>
> Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-7101-9767&data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.u
> > > >>>>>
> k%7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158
> > > >>>>>
> e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178489643%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo
> > > >>>>>
> iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000
> > > >>>>>
> &sdata=5fxelIjeqiO%2F6S%2BBPKaQn%2BlWsY0eE2qZwoGhPSKWyFg%3D&reserv
> > > >>>>> ed=0>
> > > >>>>> Citations:
> > > >>>>> https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Fscholar.google.co.uk
> %2Fcitations%3Fhl%3Den%26user%3D4Z5WABAAAAAJ&
> > > >>>>> data=04%7C01%7CRHyam%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc
> > > >>>>>
> 7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e46b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C63742948717849963
> > > >>>>>
> 2%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB
> > > >>>>>
> TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kQVKgI8bCYHYsH5afgjH6QtzqK
> > > >>>>> tccVqAMOcn8nkJDW4%3D&reserved=0> ResearchGate
> > > >>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> > > >>>>> <
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > >>>>> Fwww.researchgate.net
> %2Fprofile%2FRoderic_Page&data=04%7C01%7CRHya
> > > >>>>> m%40rbge.org.uk
> %7C42a501606f81410216ca08d89abdc7a3%7Cbb63bb00175e4
> > > >>>>>
> 6b7b7b3bc74158e4fd4%7C0%7C0%7C637429487178499632%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
> > > >>>>>
> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
> > > >>>>>
> 6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SSf320cigrMEKqpi1l3KWy0FpG8SWNKBVFk99hGrJbw%3
> > > >>>>> D&reserved=0>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >
> > > > The Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh <https://www.rbge.org.uk> is a
> > > > charity registered in Scotland (No SC007983) | Support Us
> > > > <https://www.rbge.org.uk/support-us>
> > > >
> > > > This notice applies to this email and to any other email subsequently
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> > > correspondence.
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> For
> > > list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu The Taxacom email archive back to
> 1992
> > > can be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> > 1987-2020.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> > 1987-2020.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
> 1987-2020.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>


-- 
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
https://www.routledge.com/Biogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand/Heads/p/book/9781498751872


*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. www.cambridge.org/9781107041028


*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520271968


*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=Bm0_QQ3Z6GUC
<http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=Bm0_QQ3Z6GUC&dq=panbiogeography&source=gbs_navlinks_s>


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