[Taxacom] Recent transPacific rafting due to tsunami

Kenneth Kinman kinman at hotmail.com
Mon Dec 21 10:16:26 CST 2020


Dear All,
        The 2011 Japanese tsunami carried hundreds of species across the Pacific (although these were invertebrates).   Over millions of years, bigger tsunamis and/or massive landslides would have happened thousands of times.  The biggest ones producing rafts of huge masses of trees and other vegetation capable of carrying some vertebrates to other continents (or less massive events carrying them to islands in between).
      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170928142101.htm

     Tsunami enabled hundreds of aquatic species to raft across Pacific
Biologists detect longest transoceanic rafting voyage for coastal species

Date:
September 28, 2017
Source:
Smithsonian
Summary:
The 2011 Japanese tsunami set the stage for something unprecedented. For the first time in recorded history, scientists have detected entire communities of coastal species crossing the ocean by floating on makeshift rafts. Nearly 300 species have appeared on the shores of Hawaii and the US West Coast attached to tsunami debris, marine biologists discovered.
________________________________
From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 6:51 AM
To: Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] Another transatlantic rafting primate named this year

Hi All,
       Yet another primate was named this year (April 2020) which also indicates transatlantic rafting, helped along with a drop in sea levels.  Abstract below.  Source: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6487/194

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

________________________________
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 9:13 PM
To: Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com>
Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Primate {twadle?}

Ken, none of this comes across as 'serious research findings' - just a whole series of fabrications.

Fabrication 1. "South America and Africa have been separated since the early Late Cretaceous, so vicariance of primates does not appear reasonable as an explanation for their appearance in the Eocene on two continents separated by the Atlantic." Twaddle. There is no evidence that they 'appeared' in the Eocene. None at all. I dare you to specify any such empirical evidence. Of course any alternative is 'unreasonable' by definition.

Fabrication 2. "with rafting across the Atlantic usually considered a feasible way for how primates arrived in South America, presuming they originated in Africa" - make me a raft. Any raft at all. Another fantasy.

Fabrication 3. " similar means of arrival in South America has often been proposed for the hystricognath rodents, the dispersal of amphisbaenian and gekkotan lizards, and the Opisthocomiforme" Oh yes, everyone says it is so, so it must be true. Really true. Saw a lot of this in our recent elections.

Fabrication 4. "... the re-established, relatively contemporaneous first appearance datum of primates and rodents in South America leads to consideration of possible similarities of intercontinental dispersal mechanisms for the two mammalian groups." Leads to nothing of the sort. Total garbage. This is just literalist reading of the fossil record as a sign of migration.

Cheers,

John Grehan


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:05 PM Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
Hi John,
        I guess you must be viewing this as "fake news", but what you call "twaddle" is based on serious research findings on a number of different vertebrate taxa.  For instance, based on new primate fossil evidence, Bond et al., 2015 said:
"South America and Africa have been separated since the early Late Cretaceous, so vicariance of primates does not appear reasonable as an explanation for their appearance in the Eocene on two continents separated by the Atlantic.  Numerous studies have focused on the possibility of primates crossing the Atlantic to reach South America from Africa (for example, refs 20, 21), with rafting across the Atlantic usually considered a feasible way for how primates arrived in South America, presuming they originated in Africa....  A similar means of arrival in South America has often been proposed for the hystricognath rodents, the dispersal of amphisbaenian and gekkotan lizards, and the Opisthocomiformes, a Neotropical group of birds (hoatzins) with weak flight capabilities and alleged African origin.  And, with the discovery of the Santa Rosa primates, the re-established, relatively contemporaneous first appearance datum of primates and rodents in South America leads to consideration of possible similarities of intercontinental dispersal mechanisms for the two mammalian groups."
Source:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14120.epdf?referrer_access_token=Aq3mCS_U83h_wRkC7RGhw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0OeRw-3QoIkb2K-RTBu-WlQVpxymwHRfnmhxWlRfp03p3toa22UdqDv45qaqqTQI56ppLk8Rif3uZBwNOtM87pB7tWQHTiPkH8Kqp7bQU_9txkTQeX8ZJsCEYjoymmn_jm4TsHsvXbuWtG92hWtkygbamnr1YG9cXipd6wE5cJZvHLjAzpoJ3FvB385JmwnskCZs6fZZ97GVWucjy98kE1wY54QXNy1YDdxuSd7KJu39g%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=phenomena.nationalgeographic.com

                  ------------------Ken

________________________________
From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> on behalf of John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 7:22 PM
To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
Subject: [Taxacom] Primate twadle

Link below brought to my attention. I call it a classic example of the kind
of twaddle that is handed out under the umbrella of Darwin's center of
origin and chance dispersal theory for the origin of allopatry. Mind
blowing that science can propose 'mysterious' events as an 'explanation. At
least Creationists appeal to the directing hand of God. Further, this
prominent (prestigious?) institution claims that we "know" monkeys crossed
the ocean, when in fact there is absolutely no empirically based supporting
evidence at all. It's complete fiction. Totally made up (in politics making
things up is called conspiracy).

John Grehan

https://www.facebook.com/naturalhistorymuseum/videos/824971771677613
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List

Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List

Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.


More information about the Taxacom mailing list