[Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014 theory about rafting killifish

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Tue Dec 22 09:49:55 CST 2020


Jason,

Thanks for the paper. I would be happy to do that, but first I need Ken to
specify what in the paper he sees as constituting evidence. Otherwise I am
just left guessing. Once Ken specifies what particular items presented in
the paper constitute evidence I would be happy to comment. I have noticed
that Ken tends to cite papers as evidence for is views, but rarely
specifies what within qualifies as evidence. I hope in this case he will do
that for the purposes of discussion.

Cheers,

John Grehan

On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 9:37 AM JF Mate <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here is a copy John. Your line of argumention would be more constructive
> if you could provide a critique of their work and why you think their
> conclusions are wrong. That way it would be easier to understand your
> perspective.
>
> Best
>
> Jason
>
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2020, 07:07 John Grehan via Taxacom, <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ken. See below
>>
>>  They say: "Our estimates indicate that divergence between the clades
>> comprising New World and Old World aplocheiloids occurred during the
>> Eocene, about 50 Mya, much more recent than the Gondwanan fragmentation
>> scenario assumed in previous studies."
>>
>> So they say. But what is the evidence? Ken, all you ever seem to do is
>> post
>> assertions, never specifying the evidence.
>>
>>  The molecular evidence in 2017 supports my theory.
>>
>> What is the molecular evidence?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 3:40 PM Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> >       Rivulidae (a.k.a. Cynolebiini) are New World killifish once
>> thought
>> > to have arisen in the Cretaceous before South America fully separated
>> from
>> > Africa.  However, molecular evidence in 2017 indicates they arose in the
>> > Eocene.   They say: "Our estimates indicate that divergence between the
>> > clades comprising New World and Old World aplocheiloids occurred during
>> the
>> > Eocene, about 50 Mya, much more recent than the Gondwanan fragmentation
>> > scenario assumed in previous studies. This estimation is nearly
>> synchronous
>> > to estimated splits involving other South American and African
>> vertebrate
>> > clades, which have been explained by transoceanic dispersal through an
>> > ancient Atlantic island chain during the Palaeogene."
>> >       This makes me quite happy since I brought up this possibility back
>> > in 2014, in a post here on Taxacom entitled: transoceanic "rafting" fish
>> > (great candidate).
>> >       The early branching genus Kryptolebias just happens to be a great
>> > candidate for a fish that could disperse on a raft of vegetation from
>> > Africa to South America:   (1) It's not only very tolerant of salt
>> water,
>> > but also and more importantly (2) it can survive out of water for weeks
>> at
>> > a time (66 days in one case).  (3) And guess where Kryptolebias
>> marmoratus
>> > spends much of its time while out of the water----in logs and cavities
>> of
>> > trees (which would be the main structural components of a large
>> > transoceanic raft).
>> >          Those are the three things I thought of offhand which pointed
>> to
>> > possible trans-Atlantic dispersal.  But then I began wondering about yet
>> > another strange thing about Kryptolebias fish.  They often exhibit
>> various
>> > types of hermaphroditism, and even its most extreme form
>> > (self-fertilization, which is apparently absent in vertebrates except
>> for
>> > Kryptolebias).  So just a few of these fish (or even a single
>> individual)
>> > could have established a population on another continent.   The
>> molecular
>> > evidence in 2017 supports my theory.
>> >
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1055790317300386?casa_token=ONKSbcnOLNEAAAAA:roWXxXgD1F0NqnWh9fozphZ4BbyAngOtCQwxXkyr552h7rNz1M366R2yniah-HK5hDFbRaaV
>> >
>> >                                   ------------------Ken
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
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>


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