[Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014 theory about rafting killifish

JF Mate aphodiinaemate at gmail.com
Wed Dec 23 22:54:17 CST 2020


I can't speak for Ken nor be sure that my interpretation is correct, but if
I had to guess, then I would say that in the case of the killifish, the
evidence for postvicariance dispersal would be in the time calibrated
phylogeny and the pattern being consistent with previous studies detecting
a similar pattern and timing. If am wrong in your interpretation Ken please
let me know.

Best and Merry Christmas to all

Jason

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020, 01:50 John Grehan, <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jason,
>
> Thanks for the paper. I would be happy to do that, but first I need Ken to
> specify what in the paper he sees as constituting evidence. Otherwise I am
> just left guessing. Once Ken specifies what particular items presented in
> the paper constitute evidence I would be happy to comment. I have noticed
> that Ken tends to cite papers as evidence for is views, but rarely
> specifies what within qualifies as evidence. I hope in this case he will do
> that for the purposes of discussion.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 9:37 AM JF Mate <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here is a copy John. Your line of argumention would be more constructive
>> if you could provide a critique of their work and why you think their
>> conclusions are wrong. That way it would be easier to understand your
>> perspective.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2020, 07:07 John Grehan via Taxacom, <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ken. See below
>>>
>>>  They say: "Our estimates indicate that divergence between the clades
>>> comprising New World and Old World aplocheiloids occurred during the
>>> Eocene, about 50 Mya, much more recent than the Gondwanan fragmentation
>>> scenario assumed in previous studies."
>>>
>>> So they say. But what is the evidence? Ken, all you ever seem to do is
>>> post
>>> assertions, never specifying the evidence.
>>>
>>>  The molecular evidence in 2017 supports my theory.
>>>
>>> What is the molecular evidence?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 3:40 PM Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi All,
>>> >       Rivulidae (a.k.a. Cynolebiini) are New World killifish once
>>> thought
>>> > to have arisen in the Cretaceous before South America fully separated
>>> from
>>> > Africa.  However, molecular evidence in 2017 indicates they arose in
>>> the
>>> > Eocene.   They say: "Our estimates indicate that divergence between the
>>> > clades comprising New World and Old World aplocheiloids occurred
>>> during the
>>> > Eocene, about 50 Mya, much more recent than the Gondwanan fragmentation
>>> > scenario assumed in previous studies. This estimation is nearly
>>> synchronous
>>> > to estimated splits involving other South American and African
>>> vertebrate
>>> > clades, which have been explained by transoceanic dispersal through an
>>> > ancient Atlantic island chain during the Palaeogene."
>>> >       This makes me quite happy since I brought up this possibility
>>> back
>>> > in 2014, in a post here on Taxacom entitled: transoceanic "rafting"
>>> fish
>>> > (great candidate).
>>> >       The early branching genus Kryptolebias just happens to be a great
>>> > candidate for a fish that could disperse on a raft of vegetation from
>>> > Africa to South America:   (1) It's not only very tolerant of salt
>>> water,
>>> > but also and more importantly (2) it can survive out of water for
>>> weeks at
>>> > a time (66 days in one case).  (3) And guess where Kryptolebias
>>> marmoratus
>>> > spends much of its time while out of the water----in logs and cavities
>>> of
>>> > trees (which would be the main structural components of a large
>>> > transoceanic raft).
>>> >          Those are the three things I thought of offhand which pointed
>>> to
>>> > possible trans-Atlantic dispersal.  But then I began wondering about
>>> yet
>>> > another strange thing about Kryptolebias fish.  They often exhibit
>>> various
>>> > types of hermaphroditism, and even its most extreme form
>>> > (self-fertilization, which is apparently absent in vertebrates except
>>> for
>>> > Kryptolebias).  So just a few of these fish (or even a single
>>> individual)
>>> > could have established a population on another continent.   The
>>> molecular
>>> > evidence in 2017 supports my theory.
>>> >
>>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1055790317300386?casa_token=ONKSbcnOLNEAAAAA:roWXxXgD1F0NqnWh9fozphZ4BbyAngOtCQwxXkyr552h7rNz1M366R2yniah-HK5hDFbRaaV
>>> >
>>> >                                   ------------------Ken
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>>> >
>>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>> >
>>> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>>> 1987-2020.
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>>> 1987-2020.
>>>
>>


More information about the Taxacom mailing list