[Taxacom] the family Tortricidae or just Tortricidae

Gurcharan Singh singhg45 at gmail.com
Wed Oct 14 01:34:28 CDT 2020


My understanding
- The family Tortricidae: is (Group belonging to a particular category)
- The Tortricidae: are [Group of several members)




Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089
https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/


On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 9:58 AM Soowon Cho via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thank you for clarifying my questions on group names. Here are what I
> understood from your comments and I hope I got it right.
> - the Code states:
>    names of the family-group are nouns in the plural
>    names of the genus-group are in the singular
> - Tortricidae: are [sometimes (or rarely?) 'is', depending on the context]
>  *However, the following two are still arguable?:
>    Tortricidae consist of leaf-roller moths.
>    Tortricidae consists of leaf-roller moths.
> - The family Tortricidae: is ['family' becomes the subject and is singular]
> - The Tortricidae: is [considering 'family' omitted]
> - Tortricids: are [general informal name]
> - Tortrix: is [Tortrix is a genus name]
>
> Sincerely,
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:37 AM Frederick W. Schueler via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > On 13-Oct.-20 11:43 a.m., Richard Jensen via Taxacom wrote:
> >
> > >  if referring to the family as a single
> > > entity, then treat it as singular; when there is a stated or implied
> > > reference to only some members of the family, or using the informal
> name
> > > (e.g., rosids, tortricids), then treat it as a plural.
> >
> >
> > * but the main point in this is that taxa are nested individuals - the
> > higher taxon is a holophyletic individual as is each species of which
> > it's composed (and the species is a monophyletic individual made up of
> > individual organisms). Whether you use a plural or singular depends on
> > whether you're referring to all or some of the subordinate taxa as a
> > collective, or to the higher taxon as a single holophyletic individual.
> > You get the same thing with other collective entities - you can say "the
> > United States is..." or "the United States are..." depending on the
> > context.
> >
> > fred.
> > ===============================================
> >
> > > A number of my
> > > botanical colleagues argued that, given the Latin origin and structure
> of
> > > the name, it requires a plural verb, as in (using my favorite plant
> > family)
> > > "Fagaceae consist of trees and shrubs."  My view is that, because we
> are
> > > not writing in Latin, but using English (I won't try to deal with other
> > > languages), we should use English constructions, not follow Latin
> rules:
> > > thus, "Fagaceae consists of trees and shrubs."
> > >
> > > This is done regularly in other English contexts.  We do not write "Los
> > > Angeles are a city in California" or "Colorado Springs are a city
> > > in Colorado".  In English, it is, in my experience, generally
> recommended
> > > that collective nouns (such as Tortricidae or Fagaceae) take singular
> > > verbs.  But, not everyone follows these recommendations.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Dick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:07 AM Robert Zuparko via Taxacom <
> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > >> As to your point one: I can see three different explanations here:
> > >>
> > >> 1. It MAY be a matter of the perceived audience: if one is addressing
> > >> (either in print or in person) an audience of lepidopterists, then
> > >> "Tortricidae" is sufficient and adding the phrase "the family" does
> seem
> > >> redundant to me. However, if one is addressing an audience of layfolk,
> > who
> > >> know little about nomenclature, emphasizing the taxonomic level could
> be
> > >> useful.
> > >>
> > >> 2. Again, when focusing on taxonomic classification, adding "the
> family"
> > >> helps add emphasis to a point one is trying to make
> > >>
> > >> 3. Some people are a bit on the, er, garrulous side.
> > >>
> > >> -Bob
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 5:04 AM Paul van Rijckevorsel via Taxacom <
> > >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I agree with Ken. All three options can be correct.
> > >>> It depends on context and intent.
> > >>>
> > >>> Paul
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > >>> To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 8:59 AM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] the family Tortricidae or just Tortricidae
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>      1.  I don't think it is necessarily redundant, because -idae is
> > not
> > >>>> only the ending for animal family names, but it is also the ending
> for
> > >>>> plant subclasses (such as Rosidae).
> > >>>>      2.  As for being singular or plural, it depends on the context
> > >>> within
> > >>>> the sentence.  Tortricidae are tortricids, so it can be plural
> > >>>> ("Tortricidae are moths").   But "Family Tortricidae" is a single
> > group
> > >>> as
> > >>>> a taxon, especially when used as the subject of a sentence.  "Family
> > >>>> Tortricidae is speciose".   If you don't explicitly refer to it as a
> > >>>> family, you could say "Tortricidae are speciose" or "Tortricidae is
> > >>>> speciose", depending the context (plural  tortricids or as a single
> > >>>> taxon).   Likewise, you could say "Rosidae are speciose" (meaning
> > >> rosids
> > >>>> are speciose), but it would be "Rosidae is speciose" if you are
> > >>> referring
> > >>>> to the subclass (a singular taxon).   Perhaps it is best to make
> your
> > >>>> meaning clear by saying "Rosids are a speciose group" or "Subclass
> > >>> Rosidae
> > >>>> is a speciose group".   Same for Tortricids and Family Tortricidae.
> > >>>>                   ---------------Hope this helps,
> > >>>>                                                        Ken
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ________________________________
> > >>>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of
> > Soowon
> > >>> Cho
> > >>>> via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > >>>> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:47 PM
> > >>>> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > >>>> Subject: [Taxacom] the family Tortricidae or just Tortricidae
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dear members,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As a non-native English speaker, I have two questions and really
> hope
> > >> you
> > >>>> could help me.
> > >>>> 1. I feel curious about why people add "the family", "the
> subfamily",
> > >>> "the
> > >>>> genus", etc. in front of the scientific name in writing: for
> example,
> > >>> "the
> > >>>> family Tortricidae" instead of just "Tortricidae". Is there a
> pattern
> > >> or
> > >>>> rule in English? I thought it is redundant when we know Tortricidae
> > >> with
> > >>>> idae-ending means it is a family name.
> > >>>> 2. Sometimes I see Tortricidae, Tortricinae, or genus name Tortrix
> is
> > >>>> treated as a singular, but sometimes as a plural noun. I thought,
> > based
> > >>> on
> > >>>> the ICZN, they are basically plural, but, in many cases, they are
> > >>>> considered as a singular noun. Spell checker also treats them as a
> > >>>> singular
> > >>>> form. This may or may not be an English question, but I hope someone
> > >>>> please
> > >>>> let me know how to distinguish between the two.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sincerely,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Soowon Cho
> > >>>> chosoowon at gmail.com
> > >>>> Dept Plant Medicine
> > >>>> Chungbuk Nat'l Univ
> > >>>> Cheongju, 361-763
> > >>>> KOREA
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> > >> Essig Museum of Entomology
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> --
> Soowon Cho
> chosoowon at gmail.com
> Dept Plant Medicine
> Chungbuk Nat'l Univ
> Cheongju, 361-763
> KOREA
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