[Taxacom] A nomen nudum in Bombus

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Jun 3 21:49:29 CDT 2021


 But it is the moot point whether unavailable names should not be used. I say that, all other things being equal, there is no rational basis for not using an unavailable name, when one exists, for an otherwise undescribed species. I am talking about cases where the identity of the species is clear from the original description, but the name just fails code compliance on a technicality. The only reason against, that I have read so far in this thread, is that the name could change at any stage, but the same is true for any name, available or unavailable.Stephen
    On Friday, 4 June 2021, 01:01:57 pm NZST, Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:  
 
 There is a mistake in the verbage here, it is not "cannot" it is "should 
not."  No sheriff coming if you do something wrong nomenclaturally.

Mike

On 6/3/2021 6:33 PM, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> I'm a bit confused (when am I not?) regarding the statement that " They can
> use the unavailable name adding the necessary information to repair it" I
> thought that if a name was nomen nudum it was unavailable so one cannot use
> it?
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 4:16 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>>  Scott,You have simply repeated the same flawed argument as others have
>> already done in this thread. Yes, there could be a name change if a later
>> author coins a new name for the species, but it is no more or less a
>> problem than any other name change (and many of the latter are arguably
>> unnecessary anyway, just subjective splitting, fueled by the mihi
>> itch!)Cheers, Stephen
>>      On Friday, 4 June 2021, 06:49:58 am NZST, Scott Thomson <
>> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Several problems with this beyond taxonomy and nomenclature. Here as
>> taxonomists we are specialists we tend to be aware of issue names at least
>> within the scope of our specialty groups of taxa. General scientists, the
>> end users of the nomenclatures we put forward are not.
>> Assuming the name starts getting used and finds its way into the general
>> lit, for all appearances it has stability. It's been sitting there
>> technically a nomen nudem for years because no one fixed it. Someone
>> finally decides to fix the issue, they have choices. The name is nomen
>> nudem and hence is unavailable which means it does not really exist. They
>> can use the unavailable name adding the necessary information to repair it.
>> Its now of course their name not the original authors, although thats of
>> lesser importance. They could also replace the name with their own for
>> whatever reason. A taxon with what people thought was a stable name now has
>> a new name. Not a good look, taxonomists will be accused of messing with
>> the stable nomenclature for the sake of nomenclature. I think its better to
>> ignore a name that is unavailable, then it never gets traction. If the
>> authors or someone else fixes it in the future it can be used at that point.
>> In the Global Lists Governance I do not believe any of us could take the
>> risk with an unavailable name on the chance it will be repaired in the
>> future. The Global Lists are aiming at stability for all users of
>> nomenclature, not just taxonomists. Accepting usage of unavailable names is
>> not stable.
>> I understand your points Stephen, and how you have restricted this, but it
>> seems unworkable in the big picture.
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 5:58 AM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  Well, it has no greater downsides than for any name change
>>      On Thursday, 3 June 2021, 08:23:45 pm NZST, Roland Bergman-Sun via
>> Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  Translation:
>> Attaching scientific information to unavailable names that may be
>> changed at any time has no conceivable downsides, so it's all fine.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 4:12 PM Stephen Thorpe
>> <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>>> Andrew,
>>> I respectfully disagree. Code compliance is preferable but not vital.
>> There is bad science on both sides, i.e. code compliant and code
>> non-compliant, and good science on both sides. If a name can be
>> unambiguously linked to a species, then we should use it, even if it is an
>> unavailable name on a technicality.
>>> I kind of get it that you are overplaying the problems associated with
>> Code noncompliance so as to discourage people from sloppy nomenclature, but
>> that doesn't change the fact that there are no serious problems associated
>> with using an unavailable name as if it were valid.
>>> Cheers, Stephen
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 3 June 2021, 07:58:30 pm NZST, Andrew Whittington <
>> awhittington at flyevidence.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Stephen,
>>>
>>> just doesn't really matter if it ends up taking a while
>>>
>>> Well, actually, it does matter. Maybe not to you - but then you are
>> consistently not listening to the numerous members of this forum that have
>> explained why.
>>> The name is currently not code compliant and there is time to fix it
>> before publication. Not doing so does not mean the name should be used
>> until sometime in the future if/when it gets fixed. It means it should not
>> be used and is unacceptable.
>>> If we follow your method, then the future will be littered with names
>> that are not code compliant because authors feel that they can "get away
>> with it" given that some taxonomist in the future will come along and
>> remedy the bad science that has been propagated through non-code
>> compliance. It suggests that the code "doesn't really matter".
>>> If authors wish to promote new names, then the actions leading to the
>> use of those names need to be code compliant, otherwise we may as well tear
>> the code up right now.
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> ====o0o====
>>> Andrew E Whittington
>>> Consultant Entomologist, PhD, FRES MCSFS
>>> Zootaxa Editor: Diptera & small orders of insects
>>> ZooNova Entomology Editor
>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fflyevidence.co.uk%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590102584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tWvW0SE4s5bOhVdULv4g%2B5XYbaN3ZfAsmsU2d5zkuJA%3D&reserved=0
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of Stephen
>> Thorpe via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>>> Sent: 03 June 2021 04:19
>>> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>; Roland
>> Bergman-Sun <kotatsu.no.leo at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] A nomen nudum in Bombus
>>>
>>> Roland,I don't disagree, except that if it does take a while to get
>> fixed, then that shouldn't stop us from using the name as if it were valid
>> (and by that I recommend flagging it as unavailable, while still using it).
>> The difference between an available name and an unavailable name makes
>> little or no difference in practice. So, by all means encourage people to
>> fix the problem in timely fashion, but it just doesn't really matter if it
>> ends up taking a while to get fixed.Cheers, Stephen
>>>    On Thursday, 3 June 2021, 02:19:59 pm NZST, Roland Bergman-Sun via
>> Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>  Recommending people to treat unavailable names as if they were
>>> available *is* encouraging bad taxonomic practice.
>>> Asserting that this is okay because someone might make the name
>>> available in the future is encouraging people to attach further
>>> scientific data to a name that may not be used in the future.
>>> If attaching scientific data to a name that may not be used in the
>>> future is a problem, then encouraging people to do so is bad taxonomic
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> My suggestion was and remains:
>>> If the existence of this nomen nudum is a (potential) problem for
>>> researchers in the field, there may still be time to alert the
>>> authors/editors and have them amend the manuscript to make the name
>>> available, since it is still only a preprint.
>>> To which can be added:
>>> If the preprint cannot be further modified for some reason, and the
>>> existence of this nomen nudum is a (potential) problem in the field,
>>> then the authors should be encouraged to make the name available as
>>> soon as possible, before attaching further scientific data to a name
>>> that may be replaced in the future.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 4:45 AM Stephen Thorpe
>>> <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> Roland,
>>>> You are still not making much sense. As I already stated, I am not
>> trying to discourage the fixing of the problem. I am not trying to
>> encourage bad nomenclatural practice either. I am simply trying to point
>> out that an unavailable name can be validated at any stage, so there is no
>> reason not to keep using it for the species. The worst case scenario is
>> that someone renames it with another name, but that is no worse than any
>> name change and will be even more likely to happen if we ignore the current
>> name as you seem to be suggesting. Names function as names, whether or not
>> they are Code compliant. There used to be an arcane myth in taxonomy that a
>> nomen nudum means that name can never be used. Perhaps this myth is still
>> around?
>>>> Cheers, Stephen
>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 4:13 AM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom
>>> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>  John,Like just about everyone else on this list, you too haven't read
>> what I wrote properly! I was explicitly talking only about cases in which
>> the name does unambiguously apply to a species, by way of a good taxonomic
>> description which fails on a mere nomenclatural technicality. You are
>> mixing this up with a different problem.Cheers,Stephen
>>>>    On Thursday, 3 June 2021, 03:56:06 am NZST, John Grehan <
>> calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>  As one who has no learned expertise whatsoever on nomenclature, I do
>> find it problematic to 'recognise' or use nomen nudum names. I had this
>> occur in my group (ghost moths) where a Chinese author wrote on the biology
>> of a species using a name without the required designations (designated
>> type specimen and description). So there is no way to know what they were
>> referring to. Obviously it might be a 'real' and new species, but no way to
>> know, and so I see no value in this case continuing to "use an unavailable
>> name as if it were valid". I get the impression that people are free to
>> choose to ignore some or all of the code. Whether such choices are
>> preferable or not is in the eyes of the beholder.
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 5:14 AM Andrew Whittington via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>> I'm with Doug on this one Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> Of course nobody can prevent use of the name after it has been
>> proposed - but you entirely miss the point that the name should not have
>> been published without proper adherence to the ICZN protocols in the first
>> place.
>>>> These are not pointless technicalities of the code, but rather lack of
>> adherence to a set of agreed principles that have been developed by the
>> scientific community to serve a very clear purpose. What scientist do and
>> what they should do are clearly two different things and we should be
>> encouraging adherence to the protocols, not dodging around them for
>> convenience.
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> ====o0o====
>>>> Andrew E Whittington
>>>> Consultant Entomologist, PhD, FRES MCSFS
>>>> Zootaxa Editor: Diptera & small orders of insects
>>>> ZooNova Entomology Editor
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fflyevidence.co.uk%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590112580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=FewvrHPgS7x4MQiyAl5z%2FG7Gmymf9RGjE9zFZXbtXuY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-0465-1172&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590112580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=r9iLyXJyqF71Ygl%2BiN3JcJj9qqvuKFeFYq3quMc8V%2BU%3D&reserved=0
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of
>> Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>>>> Sent: 02 June 2021 03:16
>>>> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>; Douglas
>> Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] A nomen nudum in Bombus
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's about what I would expect from you Doug - a completely
>> irrational opinion! Names like Bombus incognitus carry with them useful
>> scientific data, derived from the publication in which they were
>> technically an unavailable name. So, your view, if I understand it, would
>> prevent anyone using the name Bombus incognitus, except perhaps by way of a
>> note that this name has been used in publications, but is technically
>> unavailable. My view, rather, is that we can just use the name, in the
>> usual way, until such time as it gets validated. This is what happens in
>> reality - does anyone remember reality? - for names which are unavailable
>> for more subtle reasons, which nobody may even notice until well down the
>> track. I'm not trying to undermine the ICZN at all, I'm just trying to
>> reconcile it with the reality of what scientists do, and minimise
>> disruption caused by pointless little technicalities of the Code.Cheers,
>> Stephen
>>>>    On Wednesday, 2 June 2021, 11:48:38 am NZST, Douglas Yanega via
>> Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>  On 6/1/21 2:56 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
>>>>> For unavailable names like Bombus incognitus, for example, I
>> recommend
>>>>> the following:
>>>>> Assuming that they refer to a good species without any other name
>>>>> available, use the unavailable name as if it were the valid name for
>>>>> the taxon, until such time as someone validates the name
>>>>> nomenclaturally. Any such validation should use the original name,
>>>>> i.e. Bombus incognitus, rather than disruptively coin a different
>>>>> name. Of course, if the species is inadvertently named again as new,
>>>>> witha different name, then Bombus incognitus will be superseded by
>> the
>>>>> new name, except if the name Bombus incognitus has already gained
>> wide
>>>>> usage, in which case an application for conservation of the name
>> would
>>>>> be appropriate. It must be remembered that many names in current
>> usage
>>>>> are unavailable for somewhat less obvious reasons than Bombus
>>>>> incognitus, e.g. lack of specified type depository, etc. It is far
>>>>> more sensible just to continue using them as if they were valid,
>> until
>>>>> such time as any nomenclatural problems can be resolved (and there is
>>>>> really no hurry or necessity)
>>>>>
>>>> I disagree with essentially everything you have suggested above, and
>>>> strongly suggest that others here learn from you exactly what NOT to
>> do.
>>>> It's like you are actively seeking to undermine the principles of the
>>>> ICZN, by making proposals that go directly against what the Code
>>>> specifically tells people they should do.
>>>>
>>>> Give it a rest, please,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology      Entomology Research Museum
>>>> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314    skype: dyanega
>>>> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>>>>              https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590112580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1hOCK9qlFM1dFoivF%2BIrzZAGDppqJamA8Uy6dCxyAzs%3D&reserved=0
>>>>  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>>>>        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>>>>
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>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years,
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>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> 1987-2021.
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>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nennIfy9pBvLJHUiuI3chCCIka6zD%2Foa536dCFdIbVk%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> 1987-2021.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zjF5LHjaPdGo1u4NbsjjzWvhyDrC8AuyRE2V4A%2BYjcM%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nennIfy9pBvLJHUiuI3chCCIka6zD%2Foa536dCFdIbVk%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> 1987-2021.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zjF5LHjaPdGo1u4NbsjjzWvhyDrC8AuyRE2V4A%2BYjcM%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nennIfy9pBvLJHUiuI3chCCIka6zD%2Foa536dCFdIbVk%3D&reserved=0
>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> 1987-2021.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zjF5LHjaPdGo1u4NbsjjzWvhyDrC8AuyRE2V4A%2BYjcM%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nennIfy9pBvLJHUiuI3chCCIka6zD%2Foa536dCFdIbVk%3D&reserved=0
>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> 1987-2021.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zjF5LHjaPdGo1u4NbsjjzWvhyDrC8AuyRE2V4A%2BYjcM%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nennIfy9pBvLJHUiuI3chCCIka6zD%2Foa536dCFdIbVk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zjF5LHjaPdGo1u4NbsjjzWvhyDrC8AuyRE2V4A%2BYjcM%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nennIfy9pBvLJHUiuI3chCCIka6zD%2Foa536dCFdIbVk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
>> Petrópolis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nR%2FWCBPL%2Fl0GflU3U9n6qGTic5ScUKHKjT57wH1re0s%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722Lattes&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590122577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RoQwgS4549X1M6RSM8Wdl7NopO8V38qxGbIN5wI42Ss%3D&reserved=0:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728Skype&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590132569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SePOT8iGcCl6j8WZbHEZ%2BpxHOlYb5dKmRIhgr6d4VVI%3D&reserved=0: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>
>>
>> |  | Virus-free. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590132569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XoMMO4Xac0Fp3XJEFADG7BwzwZRURKUzryGMIN5Jx08%3D&reserved=0  |
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590132569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=C5onFtBz%2FbgAvZFWES3OVw6eFRDzWg13itmRkdMkVtg%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590132569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tRbJSm1Ot85mb0cV2v5RL0vUq%2FCeVl6Fr1y199raUE8%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590132569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=C5onFtBz%2FbgAvZFWES3OVw6eFRDzWg13itmRkdMkVtg%3D&reserved=0
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Cb7d53f8b6e014db9bd3208d926f07b8b%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637583636590132569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tRbJSm1Ot85mb0cV2v5RL0vUq%2FCeVl6Fr1y199raUE8%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.

-- 
__________________________________________________

Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA


(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu

_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List

Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
  


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